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Thread: I'm a bit scared of what a ukip win means for us.

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivb View Post
    I'm not legally minded or a law student, but i'm just fed up now with Labours /Conservatives / LibDems attitude on the 'let 'em all in' culture. I've never voted before - I just felt the need to this time.

    I feel like a stranger in a strange land, and I just feel that the cries are getting louder to stop this mindless influx. I sincerely don't doubt that migration of workers is good for the economy - but there surely must be a limit! No job - no entry sounds good,lol.
    Not only are you entitled to your opinion but you are 100% correct. I would go further than you and have a points system like Australia have and only let the required number of people in for the skill shortages that we have.

    The political class have let all these people in due to cheap labour. I live in a wealthy upper middle class suburb and the amount of gardeners/nannies/house keepers we have is shocking, mostly from the Ex-Soviet bloc. That's who is profiting from all this migration, people like my parents and those who live in areas like mine.
    Last edited by removed; 23-05-14 at 21:54.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivb View Post
    I'm not legally minded or a law student, but i'm just fed up now with Labours /Conservatives / LibDems attitude on the 'let 'em all in' culture. I've never voted before - I just felt the need to this time.

    I feel like a stranger in a strange land, and I just feel that the cries are getting louder to stop this mindless influx. I sincerely don't doubt that migration of workers is good for the economy - but there surely must be a limit! No job - no entry sounds good,lol.
    No job = no entry is not quite what Directive 2004/38 says, but it is maybe closer than the prevailing public discourse would have you think.

    All EU citizens have the right of entry and right of residence for up to three months without any formalities other than the requirement to hold a valid national ID card or passport - that's Articles 5 and 6 of the Directive. This is the basis on which UK nationals have formality free travel (other than carrying a passport) to the remainder of the EU for holidays and short business trips.


    EU nationals have no right to residence in another EU country beyond three months unless they meet the requirements of Article 7. Article 7 admits those who are working or self-employed, and gives them the right to access the benefits system.

    Article 7 admits two further classes of people, but requires them to have comprehensive health insurance and bans their access to the benefits system. These people are those of independent means, and students.

    In all cases, Article 7 admits family members on the same basis, but this is subject to various limitations (including who is a family member) I won't rehearse here. A long and rather complex essay on the subject is not helpful, and getting too deeply into the free movement of workers requires bringing in other parts of EU law, not least Regulation 1612/68.


    Article 7 right to residence is subject to formalities, not least under Articles 8 to 11. It is also possible to lose the Article 7 right to residence if you no longer satisfy the conditions.


    I'm not naive. I'm sure there are those from other EU countries who go 'under the radar' and claim that have arrived in the past 3 months. However, this will not get them access to the benefits system, as the rules for benefits have been changed to require a minimum of 3 months residence before benefits can be paid. Because EU law requires all EU nationals to be treated equally, this rule also applies to UK nationals returning from abroad, which has surprised some people on their return to the UK.

    Now that the 3 months residence rule is in place, you have to satisfy DWP that you have been resident in the UK for 3 months. You also need to show to DWP's satisfaction that you are a UK citizen, have a UK visa permitting recourse to public funds (most don't), or are an EU national that has complied with the registration requirements of Article 8 of Directive 2004/38.


    I'm also not naive enough to believe there are no loopholes, but I'm sure DWP and the government continue to address them.

  3. #23
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    As someone who was born disabled, growing up I was made to feel that the world around me did not accept me or want to include me. Because I (and my disabled friends) were not like everyone else.

    I could not go everywhere that everyone else could go.

    I was (and still am) stared at in the street for how I looked,

    I was made fun of, had my disability used as a way to put me "in my place".

    Because of this, UKIP's rhetoric of exclusion and division is something I am totally against.

  4. #24
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    As someone born disabled, I was brought up in a world where I was made to feel that I did not belong.

    I could not go everywhere that everyone else could.

    I was stared at in the street because of how I look.

    I was laughed at, made fun of, and had my disability used to "put me in my place".

    Because of this, UKIP's rhetoric of division and exclusion is something I am totally against.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighttouch View Post
    Well, it seems that the country now has four political parties.

    As far as I'm concerned it doesn't seem to matter who gets in power as you can be sure they won't keep their promises.

    Out of interest this is UKIP's disability policy as it stood before the election.

    http://www.staretheridge.co.uk
    I read that - where were the policies?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by rich-ward View Post
    As someone who was born disabled, growing up I was made to feel that the world around me did not accept me or want to include me. Because I (and my disabled friends) were not like everyone else.

    I could not go everywhere that everyone else could go.

    I was (and still am) stared at in the street for how I looked,

    I was made fun of, had my disability used as a way to put me "in my place".

    Because of this, UKIP's rhetoric of exclusion and division is something I am totally against.
    Indeed I agree, but Immigration is, IMO, out of control. Surely we can't keep allowing whole communities to be flooded like this! Why should City centres become no go areas for fear of foreign speaking east Europeans hanging around in gangs and hanging around DWP offices. Maybe it is only ME that finds it intimidating though.

  7. #27
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    I'm with you barbiejane on this! Can't stand the man!

  8. #28
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    When I listen to Nigel Farage, he speaks like a human. When I listen to Cameron, Milliband and Clegg they sound like robots.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by reddivine View Post
    I'm with you barbiejane on this! Can't stand the man!
    Whether you can stand the man or not is surely irrelevant. So you like Cameron or that lying Iain Duncan Smith? Is it not time for change?

  10. #30
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    I'm very suspicious of UKIP mainly because like other "right wing" and nationalist political parties they seem to attract the more extreme racists and bigots who see them as a way in. What I do like is that by highlighting political issues that the mainstream parties have been too scared to address and making gains purely on these grounds it will wake them up to the view of the voters.

    I don't think there is any country in the world where immigration does not cause problems with the natural racism of people in general, with increasing demand on services and general integration into the general population. While immigration to the UK was at lower levels in the past this was a smaller problem but with the large scale immigration we are having now it's far more difficult to address.

    I do not understand the big picture on the EU. There are a lot of issues with our ability to make our own laws and the money we pay in but all the same I'm sure there are trade advantages too. I haven't seen a decent article that explains it all to my satisfaction anyway. I hope UKIP acts as the catalyst for the main parties to make changes but I can't yet see them as a serious political party with proper policies in other areas away from immigration and Europe.

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