Pip decision maker telephone call regarding decision?

[KAREN SV]

What is the telephone call about tomorrow regarding my PIP decision? Is it for her to tell me how she reached this decision? Can I say why I think her decision should be looked at again in this call OR do I just listen and then say to her that I want to ask for mandatory reconsideration? I don't understand the system?

Also do I say that I feel she has maybe made a mistake in the awarding of 4 points in the going out descriptor and she has agreed that I would need someone with me in her "how the decision was reached". But on the actual descriptor she has said I would need prompting?

IF I mention this tomorrow then would this hinder the whole decision being looked at again OR could she state that yes, that is a mistake and it gets me the 10 points giving me at least the lower mobility and that its paid straight away OR would she wait until the whole thing is looked at in the mandatory reconsideration if I still wanted to ask for one as I don't really go to familiar places without someone with me either?

If she agrees that maybe a mistake has been made and gives me 10 points at least for mobility, then would this be awarded straight away and the back pay made to me straight away? It seems unfair if not because of mistake maybe?

[Flymo]

I've already given various suggestions in other threads, which I'm not going to reiterate. Here's an outline of how I'd play it (key points in bold):

• get the security questions out of the way (they'll ask you things like your middle name, postcode or mobile number)
• ask the decision maker if you can have their name and direct line number in case you get cut off or have further questions
• say that you're obviously disappointed not to be awarded PIP
• say that you want the decision reconsidered, but only when you have had a chance to reflect on the decision and have made a detailed written submission requesting reconsideration
  
• say that you believe the decision has underestimated your daily living and mobility problems, but you understand the decision maker has to be persuaded that you more likely than not meet the criteria for PIP
• ask for a copy of the assessment report and any other evidence used to reach the decision so that you can prepare a detailed written submission requesting reconsideration
  
• thank the decision maker for an opportunity to ask questions so that you can understand why the decision was reached
• ask for an explanation of the decision on "planning and following journeys"
• ask for an explanation of the decision in all other activities where you have questions (make a list, with notes)
• state that all additional information you gave during the call should be treated as provisional and reiterate that you do not want the reconsideration to take place until you have made a written submission (you could back away from insisting you want to make a written submission before reconsideration if you get clear indications that the decision is going to be changed in your favour - but I would only suggest doing this if you are certain the decision will be changed)
• conclude by thanking the decision maker for their time

I'd personalise this and keep it, and your decision letter, by the phone, together with a notepad and pencil. Keep notes during the conversation - that is vital.

If you adopt this model, there's no harm discussing your problems with the decision maker and exploring the possibility of more points so long as you remember to say at the end that all information you gave during the call is provisional pending your written submission requesting reconsideration.

Does this help?

[KAREN SV]

Thank you so much Flymo. I know I am a nuisance at times and have to go over and over things and yes, I will print this off and keep it by the phone.

You are the biggest asset to this site Flymo. Once again thanks.

[Flymo]

Reconsiderations and appeal tribunals remake the original decision, so any award via these routes is backdated to the original date of claim.


The cut off date is somewhat complex. The law states that the cut off date is one month from the date of the original notification, which is the date by which DWP must receive your reconsideration request. You get an extra two weeks if you request a written statement of reasons, but the explanation in the decision letter is likely to qualify as a statement of reasons, so you probably cannot get this extra two weeks.

Beyond that, you're into demonstrating "good cause" as to why your reconsideration request is late, which is not that easy to do. Unless you can get an advance "good cause" decision (which is very tricky), it's arguably better to submit what you've got in time rather than trying to get an extension.

I wouldn't put any reliance on what the PIP helpdesk told you - as that's not something I recognise in the law. I can't see how you can argue that the decision maker's call is the "date of notification" of the decision that is referred to in regulation 5(1)(b)(i) of The Universal Credit, Personal Independence Payment, Jobseeker’s Allowance and Employment and Support Allowance (Decisions and Appeals) Regulations 2013 (SI 2013/381).

The tough requirements for "good cause" for a late reconsideration are found in regulation 6.


The best thing is to get on with what you can now, such as putting your arguments together for "planning and following journeys" using the information I've already given you. The phone call from the decision maker will help in this process. You can always check your draft later on when you get the assessment report. The report is unlikely to contain anything earth shattering - it will just flesh out what you already know.

Your task is to show it is more likely than not you meet the criteria for PIP. You do not have to show that the assessment report is wrong or misleading.

The reason you want the assessment report is that it can reveal the misconceptions about your abilities, which might tell you exactly what you need to explain better.

[gogreener1]

Karen, you mention you will be incapacitated due to the colonoscopy, I'm aware these are done in day case using only a local anisthetic and not general, correct me if I'm wrong. If so could you not get a letter from the consultant saying you will be incapacitated for a few days and it seems to fall on a weekend surely they will give you some leverage

Hope it works out for you.

[gogreener1]

I've been reading your other threads seems your having a hard time of it, I know it's easy to say but maybe just try and relax more and stop putting stresses on yourself take flymo's advice print it all off write up notes and get help from a welfare advisor who works with your council, they work wonders in my area. All this stress won't be making your medical conditions any better especially if your sitting at home continually worrying about the next steps.

Good luck

[Flymo]

He told me that I DO NOT HAVE TO WAIT to submit my reconsideration request.

That's true - you can send your reconsideration request at any time. However, if it's done, why not put it to one side and see if you can get hold of the assessment report before the one month deadline runs out? You may be able to improve the reconsideration request after speaking to the decision maker and seeing your assessment report.

If time is running out and you won't be well enough to do anything more, make sure that post the latest version so that it gets there in time.

[KAREN SV]

That's true - you can send your reconsideration request at any time. However, if it's done, why not put it to one side and see if you can get hold of the assessment report before the one month deadline runs out? You may be able to improve the reconsideration request after speaking to the decision maker and seeing your assessment report.

If time is running out and you won't be well enough to do anything more, make sure that post the latest version so that it gets there in time.

Ok, thanks flymo, that seems to be helpful and I will definitely hang fire just a few more days or so to see what information is sent to me. I asked today if my assessment (and all the revisions) has been sent to me yet and was told there was nothing on the system to say it had been sent out. I told him I requested this on the 26th which was the date I received the decision. I wonder if its now going to be sent out or not? I forgot to ask him to do it if it hadn't already. Would you think he would have done this? I certainly hope so. I also wanted to see what revisions had been made to it by Capita. I think after all this I will be better off sending off for a SAR perhaps. At least I will get the lot then.

[rich-ward]

Well the post has just been today and still no PIP copy of assessment here. I asked as soon as I got my PIP decision so now I am taking this personal.

Also today is the final day for the decision maker to call me regarding discussing the decision. I have been in every single day and no one has called me at all. I am on pins now with regards to this. I have not sent off my reconsideration as advised by flymo but what do I do now if the decision maker does not call me?

They are making things very difficult for me in this claim and its because I made a complaint to the MP AND I took my employer to the tribunal. Is this some sort of pay back. Surely making a complaint when you feel something is wrong is the right things to do instead of just complaining on sites like this one. Others on here had their assessment reports at the time of their decisions but not me? I wonder why the hold up? I want to see what CAPITA wrote about me and my health. It seems they have stated I am well enough to not need any help it would seem so I want to see this in writing by their EMPLOYEE.

This employment tribunal has absolutely nothing to do with your PIP claim. Or the fact that you complained to your MP, who you also claim did nothing to help you anyway.

You are not the only person who has been messed around by PIP, ESA or Capita or ATOS. Literally hundreds of people have been. It is not just you.

[perditaf]

Hi Karen,
I am so sorry to read that you are having such a hard time and I totally understand that you feel that it is personal.
I don't know if you saw my thread a couple of weeks ago, but I too got turned down and received 0 points for anything. I like you felt I needed to vent and was angry and disappointed in equal measures.
Today is the last day that I can ask for a mandatory reconsideration. I received the call from the decision maker [you have to look out for with-held numbers] in fairness she didn't tell me much more than was in the letter telling me her decision.
I asked for a copy of my assessment on the day I received my letter 10th March, I reiterated my need for a copy when I received my phone call and I rang and asked again on 2nd April.
I sent my written confirmation with [recorded delivery] on the 3rd of April with all the reasons why I felt that I deserved points under each descriptor and enclosed some more medical documentation. I also enclosed a covering letter which stated that as I had still not received my assessment report I did not want any decision to be made until I had received this as there may be information on there which would assist in the decision making process and that I would be in touch as soon as I had received it.
To date it is still not in my possession and if that is still the case on Wednesday I will be calling them again, but I wanted to send my written information before the deadline so that I couldn't be accused of not following the procedure especially if this matter was taken to tribunal.
I promise you that you are not alone in being messed around and made to feel as if they have a personal vendetta against you. I also understand that due the nature of your illness it is more difficult for you not to stress about this. However hang on in there you will get there eventually. I also found it very enabling writing why I felt that I was deserving and looking at it in a more detached way and felt great when I posted it by mentally telling myself 'round two bring it on'
All the best and stay strong.
Helen xx