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Thread: Petition to scrap PIP

  1. #1

    Petition to scrap PIP

    PIP should scrapped !

    Responsible department: Department for Work and Pensions

    Taking into consideration all recently released information on PIP, is there not a good case to abandon PIP and keep DLA with some modifications.

    Now the National Audit Office has announced that :
    Delays in processing claims under the new Personal Independence Payment have reduced the amount the Government expected to save by £140 million, the National Audit Office said.

    The backlog in cases have cut expected savings over the course of this Parliament, with the DWP now forecast to save £640 million a year by 2015, rather than its orginial prediction of £780 million.

    Each new PIP claim - worth between £21 and £134 a week to disabled claimants - costs an average £182 to administer, compared to £49 under DLA, the report said.

    PIP should now be scrapped and DLA kept with some modifications. I ask you to sign my petition to the Government to cancel PIP.

    I ask members to sign the petition at this link: epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/61694
    I also respectfully ask that you pass it to relatives, friends and other welfare rights organisations you feel would support the petition.

    Please note we need at least 100,000 signatories for this to qualify for a Parliamentary Discussion

  2. #2
    Senior Member
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    Just posted this on the community & chat forum, the difference in admin costs alone should make this a no brainer.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jard View Post
    Just posted this on the community & chat forum, the difference in admin costs alone should make this a no brainer.
    I'm not sure that is the case. The admin costs pale compared to the cost of benefit paid out to successful claimants. If PIP succeeds in reducing the total disability benefit bill, the admin costs are easily justified.

    The admin costs of PIP are inevitably higher because of the policy decision that most PIP claimants will have a face to face assessment.


    There's numerous other problems with this petition:

    • It starts by asking a question (is there a good case to abandon PIP and revert to DLA?) rather than clearly requesting reversion to DLA
    • The solution to the (rather vaguely defined) perceived problems is bringing back DLA with modifications. Why can the perceived problems not be addressed by modifying PIP?
    • The National Audit Office report made some specific criticisms about delays and failure to deal with foreseeable problems (see paragraphs 20-22) but did not raise the kind of fundamental concerns the NAO has over Universal Credit (see Appendix Four)
    • The National Audit Office report relates primarily to claims decided up to mid-October 2013 (see Appendix Two paragraph 3). We're 4.5 months further on, with considerably more PIP decisions made now
    • There is an unwritten assumption that DLA for those over 16 can somehow be quickly reviewed and turned back on, which is not the case. Much of the decision making capability started to be dismantled in Summer 2013 once DLA closed to new claims, with the staff being redeployed or leaving DWP
    • The criticisms highlighted are NAO's findings in respect of the first months of PIP. Why would the first months of a reintroduced modified DLA be any better?
    • By the time DLA was reformed and reintroduced, PIP may well be working rather better than it is now
    • We're far too close to a general election (May 2015) for there to be sufficient Parliamentary time to make the significant changes in primary legislation necessary to bring back DLA this side of the election, let alone complete a review first


    I'm not going to defend the current state of PIP - I suffered from the delays myself. They shouldn't have happened.

    However, I simply can't see the point of this (or many other) e-petitions. If there was a will amongst the public or in Parliament to dismantle PIP and return to DLA after the NAO report, we would have seen clear evidence of it by now. There is no such evidence, so I struggle to see how this petition will force a rebellion of Government MPs against a key part of Government welfare policy, which is the only way this petition can succeed.


    I suspect most who sign will do so because they disagree with PIP in principle, rather than because of the implementation difficulties highlighted by the NAO report. Realistically, those arguments were lost in 2012 when the Welfare Reform Act 2012 became law, and there is little chance of persuading Parliament to go back on that decision in the foreseeable future.

    If Labour happen to take control at the next election (either outright or as lead partner in a coalition) I can't see a move back to DLA being a priority for them. By the time any action would be taken to reintroduce a reformed DLA, we would probably be four or five years into PIP, with many DLA claimants having been moved to PIP. Are those on PIP really going to want to be reassessed for DLA?


    This late in the lifetime of Parliament, it would seem better to seek to influence party manifestos that attempt petitions.

  4. #4
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    Someone else here who thinks this is petition is a bit pointless. As Flymo has pointed out - things are not as simple as dropping PIP and going back to DLA. Best of luck with it, all the same.

  5. #5
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    I tend to agree with Flymo on this: I am a PIP claimant, just had the call last week that I had been awarded it for care at lesser level and mobility enhanced level. I have never claimed DLA so it is not a transition. My claim for PIP took approximately the same length of time as my ESA claim ( First claim made for it ) about 6 months.
    Yes the time taken is frustrating, but the assessment is thorough and the final outcome and consequent benefit level are very acceptable.
    Obviously I have no experience of a claim for DLA, is the claim procedure and assessment similar or very different? More thorough or less than PIP? I imagine the time cycle for DLA claims was much shorter because was used over a number of years and the system was fully developed as intended.
    PIP is going to take time to establish itself as a fully fledged and efficient system, and I feel that scrapping it and reinstating a previous generation of benefit , or trying to adapt it to fit in with the rest of a rejigged/ reformed benefits system will cause more problems than it solves and the claimant who needs the support most will feel the effects and suffer soonest and longest with delays and confusion.

  6. #6
    vikstar
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    I respect your opinion Flymo, and you raise some valid points.

    However, even if the petition does not raise the required 100,000 signatures, and does not result in a debate in Parliament, or any changes, it still gives people a chance to show their discontent.

    The more people that sign it, the more of an embarrassment to the Government.

    It costs nothing to sign it, and only takes a few minutes, so, why not.

  7. #7
    vikstar
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    The situation with PIP at the moment is reminiscent of ESA prior to the beginning of the migration process which began in Spring 2011.

    Although, there was some campaigning on the net, the fight back did not really gain momentum until after Spring 2011.

    There will be some winners with PIP, but once the invitations to claim PIP start for DLA recipients with indefinite awards after October 2015, the do do will really hit the fan.

    That's why the Government has delayed the DLA indefinite award transfers until after the election.

    It is up to each individual to decide whether to sign, or not.

    I suspect that at the end of the day, there will be a lot more losers than winners.

    It is of course quite obvious that anyone who has already been awarded PIP at an acceptable level would not want to sign a petition against it.
    Last edited by vikstar; 04-03-14 at 23:40.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by vikstar View Post
    It is of course quite obvious that anyone who has already been awarded PIP at an acceptable level would not want to sign a petition against it.
    Agree with this 100%


    WD

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeDesign View Post
    Agree with this 100%


    WD
    I have major issues with PIP and ESA. I am yet to be migrated to PIP but I am not going to sign this petition because I think it is flawed . That's my choice. Even though a return to the old DLA system would mean that I would not have to experience the trauma of PIP.

    I am not looking out for number one which seems to be Vikstar's take on things with his "It is of course quite obvious that anyone who has already been awarded PIP at an acceptable level would not want to sign a petition against it" comment. That's how it reads to me.
    It's not a case of being for PIP or against it.

    I've been awarded ESA - had to go to appeal to get into the Support Group - and would happily sign a petition which offered a realistic and fairer system regarding ESA then what is in place now.

  10. #10
    Jima1
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikstar View Post
    I respect your opinion Flymo, and you raise some valid points.

    However, even if the petition does not raise the required 100,000 signatures, and does not result in a debate in Parliament, or any changes, it still gives people a chance to show their discontent.

    The more people that sign it, the more of an embarrassment to the Government.

    It costs nothing to sign it, and only takes a few minutes, so, why not.
    Also, please note that anyone who signs the petition will not have their names published on the Downing Street website, it will only show the total number of signatories on the date signed. Hopefully, this will alleviate any concerns about having their named published. Since 3 March when it was approved, 276 have signed as at 11.40am.

    Many thanks.

    Jim

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