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Thread: Official PIP figures: 2 of 3 PIP claims refused

  1. #1

    Official PIP figures are out: 2 of 3 PIP claims refused

    Table: Proportion of PIP New Claim Decisions leading to an Award


    New claims not made under Special Rules for Terminally Ill People
    Cumulative totals up to and including:

    Apr 2013...........Jun 2013.......Aug 2013.........Oct 2013..........Dec 2013

    ........-.......................60%..............35%....... .........37%..................37%


    New claims made under Special Rules for Terminally Ill People
    ........-.......................100%.............100%...... .........100%................100%


    All PIP New Claims
    ........-.......................88%..............69%....... .........59%..................50%



    Read more here
    Last edited by mariaz; 12-02-14 at 21:26.

  2. #2
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    Yes, I think they are now going to move the goal posts for all those people that have not been decided upon. My assessment went to a decision maker on the 10th January and I was then told two weeks, then three weeks, then after three weeks they said it had to go back to the assessment provider for clarification (which happened on 28th January which is SO annoying that it took them near on 3 weeks to do this as I was told that mine would not need this) and now when I ring they just say it takes two weeks for a decision since then but not heard anything yet. I will call again today and also email my MP again.

    I think they are just hoping that people will give up or trying to bend the law to suit themselves perhaps. I did listen to Flymo the other day who said that the decision maker was probably saying that I would get "more" PIP and that because it has gone back to Capita there is little chance an award will not be made BUT now I think about it, I think they could be changing their rules for newer claims as so many people "are" being assessed and "are" entitled so they are looking for ways to turn down the claimant and ways where the law will be on their side. Its so wrong how they are treating us. I feel so low over all of this. I have been waiting since beginning of August. I know some say they have waited longer. They are turning down so many now after accepting the first people who claimed and realising that so many others would also be entitled. So wrong, so very very wrong.
    Last edited by KAREN SV; 13-02-14 at 09:22.

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    I have tried not to think about PIP for a few days and left it be but have rang today again to be told that although its near on 3 weeks since they returned my claim to capita they still have not received it back again so its going to be ages. She said that originally they expected PIP decision to take 71 days from claiming to deciding upon but it seems they have received so many claims that things are not working out like that. I asked if she thought that 7 months was acceptable and she said she understood but they did not have any time limits on claims as it was not an income related benefit (I think that is how she described it).

    I have now emailed my MP again as this is ridiculous. How can we not get stressed over this. We want closure and to know where we stand. It seems to me that this benefit is NOT one to be claimed if you have anxiety or mental health issues as it can bring on more pain and anguish too and you can end up feeling worse. Its fine to say to wait and there is nothing you can do but some need things closing and it can bring on all sorts of stress related illness in its path. I realise that life is stressful and we should not allow things to bother us but try telling that to someone like me. it stinks.

    The whole system stinks. Its biased and I think they are all in it together and really don't give a damn who is blaming who (DWP, Capita or ATOS). They are still making a packet from all this between them and laughing all the way to the bank.

    Rant over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KAREN SV View Post
    Yes, I think they are now going to move the goal posts for all those people that have not been decided upon. My assessment went to a decision maker on the 10th January and I was then told two weeks, then three weeks, then after three weeks they said it had to go back to the assessment provider for clarification (which happened on 28th January which is SO annoying that it took them near on 3 weeks to do this as I was told that mine would not need this) and now when I ring they just say it takes two weeks for a decision since then but not heard anything yet. I will call again today and also email my MP again.

    I think they are just hoping that people will give up or trying to bend the law to suit themselves perhaps. I did listen to Flymo the other day who said that the decision maker was probably saying that I would get "more" PIP and that because it has gone back to Capita there is little chance an award will not be made BUT now I think about it, I think they could be changing their rules for newer claims as so many people "are" being assessed and "are" entitled so they are looking for ways to turn down the claimant and ways where the law will be on their side. Its so wrong how they are treating us. I feel so low over all of this. I have been waiting since beginning of August. I know some say they have waited longer. They are turning down so many now after accepting the first people who claimed and realising that so many others would also be entitled. So wrong, so very very wrong.
    I'd suggest that you don't ring them. Leave it for another week or so. I absolutely understand your frustration, but in my experience ringing regularly and not getting the answer you need only makes for more frustration.

    Ah, while doing my post, you did yours - you have rung them.
    Last edited by rich-ward; 13-02-14 at 10:30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rich-ward View Post
    I'd suggest that you don't ring them. Leave it for another week or so. I absolutely understand your frustration, but in my experience ringing regularly and not getting the answer you need only makes for more frustration.

    Ah, while doing my post, you did yours - you have rung them.
    Hi, I did ring them because I need to know one way or another as its on my mind and needs closure. I have tried to forget all about this but it is annoying how they treat people. I have also had a call back from a nice lady (seemed to be nice) who explained the situation and I feel better understanding the process although I am still in limbo over the decision naturally. I only want to know like so many others and understand that its a new benefit but it was the DWP helpline that suggested I make the claim in the first place as mental/physical health is one thing this benefit is more understanding to maybe. I don't feel I am being too difficult or impatient. I feel that the delays are unacceptable and so does the lady I spoke to today.

    I was told today that Capita have until the end of February to get back to the DWP and then they will chase if not received. Then the decision would be fairly quick. I was told that when we call the call centre they only have access to a bit of information and cannot see what the lady who called me can see.

    I was told when I rang capita that they had no time limit to get an assessment back to DWP. The lady at the DWP said that the hold up at their end is not too bad and decisions are being made within a couple of weeks so it seems that Capita and ATOS are to blame for these delays according to her. Such a shambles but if we do not let MP's know how can they step in or go about changing things. That is how I look at it. I will not call again now I know and I feel that this lady has relayed information to me that is correct. I will just have to be patient and get on with trying to sort my health problems myself.

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    These figures seem to show a dramatic decline in the proportion of non-Special Rules cases leading to an award of PIP, but there may well be a straightforward explanation.

    What follows only discusses the non-Special Rules cases. DWP fast track Special Rules cases and if the Special Rules are deemed to apply, an automatic award of enhanced Daily Living component is made.



    Cases decided up to the end of June 2013 are overwhelmingly likely to have been in the pilot area, as it's doubtful any other cases would have made it through the administrative stages within the less than three weeks between the 10 June 2013 start date and the end of the month.


    Only 2900 decisions had been made on non-Special Rules cases at the end of June 2013 of the 30700 cases received to that point. The limited time since the launch of PIP suggest these decisions are likely to show some bias towards cases where a "paper only" assessment can be made and a face to face assessment was not needed. I would expect "paper only" cases to be those where there is strong documentary evidence of very severe disability or where comprehensive care plans already exist. If I'm right about this, these cases would seem much more likely to succeed than the mixture of PIP cases dealt with since.

    Once the non-Special Rules cases settled down in the following quarter, the proportion succeeding is remarkably consistent.


    There may well also be other one-off factors relating to the introduction of PIP, with some people deciding to claim DLA before the deadline, and others waiting to claim PIP believing they are more likely to succeed on that system.

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    Early day's yet for this, if ESA is & was anything to go by, whats missing from these figures to be in any way indicative is the Appeal rate of those disallowed and then in turn the outcome of those figures, to give a truer picture.
    Last edited by Jard; 13-02-14 at 13:44.

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    I also wonder what percentage of the successful awards were given lower rates compared to existing DLA?.

    Over 60% of applications not getting any award at all is very worrying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phaedra View Post
    I also wonder what percentage of the successful awards were given lower rates compared to existing DLA?
    Very few of these decisions will be people transferring from DLA, as the earliest any "managed reassessment" claims for PIP could have started is October.

    There will undoubtedly be some, like me, who had a DLA award shortly before claiming PIP, but there will be relatively few people in this category at present and any figures are unlikely to be statistically significant. It is likely going to be at least six months before we have any figures for "managed reassessment" that are even remotely reliable.


    On a sample size of 1, I went from HRC HRM DLA to ERDL ERM PIP. (Acronyms - don't you love them!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jard View Post
    Early day's yet for this, if ESA is & was anything to go by, whats missing from these figures to be in any way indicative is the Appeal rate of those disallowed and then in turn the outcome of those figures, to give a truer picture.
    The proportion of decisions appealed against and the proportion of appeals that succeed are clearly going to be very important to monitor, though it's probably a little early for many PIP tribunals to have taken place. There are people waiting for hearing dates - phillee is one.


    To my mind, the scandal hinted at by these figures is the large proportion of non Special Rules cases that remain undecided. It should be taking no more than 8-10 weeks to decide non Special Rules cases, as the assessment provider contracts have a service level agreement of 97% of assessments to be complete within 30 working days (6 weeks assuming no public holidays). Judging by those posting about PIP in these forums, which admittedly is nowhere near a representative sample, it is taking over 8 months for quite a few cases to be decided.

    It is a great shame that these figures do not include time from claim to decision. I'm sure someone will be sending in a suitable Freedom of Information Act request. However, I would expect such a request to fail via the exemption for commercially sensitive information should it attempt to identify what is happening with each assessment provider too closely.

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