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Thread: Back dating premiums for income support

  1. #1
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    Back dating premiums for income support

    Applied on behalf of Hubby for PIP Oct 14th 2013, Hubby had assessment Dec 16th 2013, Rang Atos today and report has moved out of Audit and is at closure before being passed to DWP. If successful I understand that I can claim Carers allowance and have it backdated to Oct 14th 2013 so long as I claim within 1 month of receiving Hubbys decision, However not quite sure if Disability and carers premium attached to Income Support can also be backdated to the award date.Hubby currently receives SSP and Income support total income £112 per week for us both. When I filled in the income support form I did state I was unable to work due to caring for My Husband but at that point We had not put in the application for PIP for My Husband (Income Support started 9th Oct 3013) so obviously did not tick that He was in receipt of any disability benefit. If they can be backdated will it be processed automatically or would I have to request it from DWP? Thank You for any help

  2. #2
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    Your husband's PIP claim has been handled very quickly, which sounds as if it has gone via the 'special rules' route. My best wishes to you both at what might be a difficult time.


    You will need to notify the office dealing with the Income Support claim of any PIP award. The decision awarding Income Support should be superseded effective from the date of the PIP award to include the Disability Premium and, if the Daily Living component of PIP is awarded at the enhanced rate, Enhanced Disability Premium. Daily Living PIP is automatically awarded at the enhanced rate if DWP accept the 'special rules' apply.

    You may well need to make a second notification to the office handling the Income Support claim if you are awarded Carer's Allowance. This should trigger a supersession of the Income Support award to include the Carer's Premium effective from the date of the Carer's Allowance award.


    In summary, all the premiums should be backdated, though you should notify each qualifying award to the office handling the Income Support claim as you receive notification of those awards.

  3. #3
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    Thank you for replying so quickly! Application was a standard application not special rules, But I think a few things have gone in our favour with the whole process Mainly due to Me reading up on everything to do with Atos, PIP and how assessments are carried out and due to reading of other peoples journeys and experiences Yours included, It was all a great help! I used to be a residential Social Worker so was quite confident in filling out the form I treated it a lot like A Risk Assessment and I made sure That I included evidence from Hubbys CPN and Doctor along with giving them permission to contact The Consultant Psychiatrist involved with My Hubbys care. Also I rang 1 week after posting form back to check it arrived and it had, Then 4 weeks later I rang again to Jolly them along for an Assessment appointment To be told That there were no appointments available at Our nearest centre, I asked what they considered was Our nearest and they said Norwich, Luckily I had gone on to the Atos website and checked where the PIP Assessment Centres for Our Area (Mid Suffolk) and it was actually in Colchester (8 miles nearer) The person I was speaking to said they did not have one there so I told her I was looking at Their own website and it was clearly showing! Anyway She asked what address was showing I told her and Off she went to check returning 5 mins later With the News I was right and it was not showing on her screen and They had various appointments available!! So I arranged for one for 2 weeks later so as to have time to prepare My Hubby. If I had not checked for Myself I am sure I would still be waiting! Not sure how the assessment went really as My Husband completely broke down, Shaking and crying and could not participate at all But the assessor said She was Happy for Me to answer on behalf of him, We were in there an hour And I don't think I got everything out that I wanted to say as I had to keep comforting My Husband as He was distraught, but I was determined to see it through so that it was over and done with. Anyway I have rung every two weeks since and was told today it has passed from Audit onto Closure! I am still not counting our chickens yet though and have already prepared having to ask for a reconsideration and have detailed in writing The descriptors I feel apply To My Husband in preparation for a negative result! But I agree it has moved along much quicker than some others and for that I am grateful Just hoping for a positive result now! Keep up the good work and excellent advice! x

  4. #4
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    Well done for taking such a constructive and professional approach to helping your husband put across his claim, for advocating on his behalf, and for actively managing his PIP claim. I'm sure your professional experience was very useful. It's always best to take an evidence based approach, and I'm sure there's a lot of similarities between writing a risk assessment and a good PIP claim. Both involve matching evidence to criteria, attempting to resolve inconsistencies as you do so.

    I'm glad to hear this is not a 'special rules' claim, but sorry to hear your husband is so ill at present.


    It is hard to read how a PIP assessment is going, as you hardly a dispassionate observer of proceedings, nor do you know what is running through the assessor's mind. It's a bad idea to 'count chickens' at any stage, though I would be surprised if the level of your husband's distress and your joint willingness to see the assessment through failed to give a good impression of the issues you face and your willingness to engage with the system.


    Decisions seem to be taking about three weeks once DWP receives the assessment report, though that is assuming they are content with the report and don't ask the assessment provider for clarification or further information.

  5. #5
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    Well I am hoping that He will eventually be able to work again But Doctor and Psychiatrist think He has a long way to go before He is stable enough, He has suffered the effects of Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder since his teenage years with anxiety and depression on and off since his early 20's, He has always struggled with daily living and relationships and his mood swings are so severe at times He feels he is going mad. He has been off work since Sept 2013 after planning to hang himself at work and then He went into a depressive Stupor for 2 weeks! It has been hell to be honest and He tries so hard to be ''normal'' He is now on a new mood stabiliser so hoping that with his SSRI will stabilise his moods enough that he feels life is worth living again! I will keep You up to date on how it all goes and hopefully it will be a Whoo Hoo Moment! Thanks again! x

  6. #6
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    UPDATE!! Well it is sort of a Whoo Hoo Moment! Hubby has been awarded Enhanced Care backdated to The 7th October 2013, His Claim I must admit has been handled well and apart from 6 weeks in Audit at Atos there have been no delays. The journey from start to finish has taken 19 weeks which I realise is very quick compared to many if not most others and for that I am grateful, However the award and the descriptors have a few discrepancies. Although He has scored enough points for enhanced care (13) They have scored him low or not at all on a couple of important points The most important being Although it mentions on at least 4 points in the Decision Makers Reasoning notes that He does not read well Only reads the most basic words and needs Me to read and explain things including filling in forms and dealing with all correspondence, And also He scored 2 points for needing assistance from another person to make complex budgeting decisions, The DM then states at the end that Quote... You find it hard to understand complex verbal information and You can only read basic words, You can sign and print Your own name. I have decided that You can read and understand basic verbal information, Can read and understand basic and complex information unaided Unquote! So Nil points! Also regarding the Planning and Following a Journey We then have Quote.. You need someone with You when You go out due to Your anxiety and the fact You can not read well or understand directions to be able to plan a journey. I accept You need assistance to be able to undertake a journey to avoid distress to Yourself. So for that descriptor He/She has selected b) You need prompting from another person to undertake a journey to avoid causing You significant mental distress This gives You a score of 4! Now I understand that assistance means the physical intervention of another person to complete the activity and prompting means encouragement, reminding, or explaining Which implies it can be carried out without another person! I believe that My Hubby fufills a number of the descriptors at least if not more 50% of the time but one thing He can not do in any way is Plan a journey which I believe should have scored him a minimum 8 points, Any thoughts on how to approach the points I have raised? I have rung DWP and someone is going to ring back within the next 5 days So any hints as to the best way I can put across My queries appreciated! Thanks

  7. #7
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    The best way to understand the points awarded are to get hold of a copy of the assessment report. Hopefully the decision maker will call you to explain the points awarded personally - though it's obviously not worth asking for the decision to be reconsidered unless you are unhappy about the length of the award or the (apparent) lack of a Mobility component.

  8. #8
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    Hi Flymo! Yes I have asked for a copy to be sent and will wait and see what the DM says Just a bit perplexing that some descriptors given contradict How said DM came by Her/His reasoning! And so much evidence that I feel was relevant about different activities have not been mentioned at all! And Yes Hubby got the pointless point for managing therapy! It was based on the fact that I leave a dossette box with whoever is with him if I am not there Who then make sure He takes it! No mention of monitoring his severe mood swings or suicidal tendancies! Obviously the Dossette box is most relevant! Will keep You all updated!

  9. #9
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    Just to clarify why I am being thorough! Hubbys award is for 3 years and although He can mobilise perfectly well He as far as I can determine qualifies for standard mobility ( which has not been awarded Only given the 4 points mentioned previously) due to the fact He can not plan a journey, He would not have a clue or be able, I have done so much for him the past 33years that for Me it is normal, It is only the fact that others including his CPN and Doctor who have pointed out it is not! The important thing is if I was not there to fill in all the things He can not do He would be really stuck, He would have no idea even how to ask for help, His main worry in life is that I will die before him and then what would happen! I want to make sure that He gets any benefits or help that He may need now and in the future so that if I was not around He would still be supported, And I want to make sure that his award and the reasoning behind it is correct because what happens in 2 years time when He is reassessed? I agree some things may improve ie His depression ( although this is a regular occurrence) But his unstable moods and inability to read and follow directions or go anywhere unfamiliar on his own will not! They have not changed in 33 years so are unlikely to in the future, So I want the reasoning to be accurate as If they say He can read basic and complex information now which He can not It will look most strange When I repeat the same in 2 years time! Anyway I will wait and see what the DM has to say, I think I am just tired of the constant responsibility of someone else and a bit short tempered!

  10. #10
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    I would suggest there is an need to pick your battles at the moment. The somewhat confused reasons for the Daily Living component are frustrating, but that component has been awarded at the enhanced rate. This suggests that you should focus your any efforts first on the lack of the Mobility component, then on the length of the award.


    You say your husband has no problems standing and moving around, in which case there's no need to challenge the 0 points awarded for "moving around".

    Your challenge can therefore be limited to the "planning and following journeys" activity. You need to show that on the majority of days your husband is unable to plan a route. From what you say, it sounds likely that he also has problems following a route without another person.

    The assessment report will help you to understand why he scored 0 points for this activity. Beyond that, I can only reiterate the general points about making your case in the sticky PIP thread.



    The decision maker will always err on the side of caution with length of award. If there is anything with the potential to change, such as your husband's depression, that will push the thinking towards a shorter award.

    For longer awards, the decision maker has to be satisfied there is limited potential for improvement or worsening before the award is reviewed, which is difficult when the claim is founded on mental health issues. If you can obtain an unequivocal written prognosis from a doctor who knows your husband well (along the lines of "This is a stable condition and I expect no significant change in xx years / in the future" with brief reasons justifying that conclusion), that would likely tip the balance towards a longer award. Even then, the assessor reaches their own view on prognosis based on the evidence and their medical knowledge.

    Bearing in mind the limited period available for a reconsideration submission, there may well be little you can do this time round unless you have a particularly co-operative doctor who can get a letter to you quickly, but this is worth bearing in mind for the future.


    It is worth remembering that an explicit aim of PIP is periodic reassessment, so, outside very rare circumstances, it is impossible to make a one-off claim for PIP that will never be looked at again. Years ago, it was often possible to get an indefinite award of DLA and never be contacted again about that award. The figure I've seen quoted several times for DLA is 71% of components are awarded indefinitely. In recent years, DLA has moved much more to giving fixed-term awards, and there has been some review of previous awards via the Right Payments Programme.

    With PIP, the intention is that open ended "ongoing basis" awards are only awarded when the evidence indicates improvement or deterioration is highly unlikely. Even when an "ongoing basis" award is given, there will usually be a date set for an entitlement check - in my "ongoing basis" award and the one other I am aware of, this is after ten years. The guidelines on review periods are not published, but the decision maker would seem to have to be satisfied there was zero prospect of change of condition for an "ongoing basis" award with no review date, such as an award based on problems relating to blindness made to someone born with no eyes.



    It would be nice to tidy up the loose ends with the Daily Living component, but any renewal decision is made afresh on the merits at the time. This means a completely new decision is made each time based on up to date evidence, rather than the previous decision being the starting point for a new decision. Tidying up those loose ends with the existing award will not prevent the renewal process for happening in full at the end of the award.

    Once common mistake made by people attempting to renew disability benefits is basing a renewal on the change in condition since the previous decision. It is vital to make your case in full from scratch each time. DWP don't hang on to claimants' submissions or assessment reports indefinitely despite making increasing use of electronic document storage. This may mean that DWP no longer holds the information on which you seek to rely if you refer back to a previous claim! Another issue is that the renewal decision will be based on the latest regulations, which can change over time - the ESA activities, descriptors and points were extensively changed in 2013.

    It is a good strategy to hang on to previous claims so that renewal submissions can be made by updating what you wrote last time. It can also be worthwhile requesting assessment reports so that you can see how your arguments fared in the assessment process, but quoting from a previous assessment report is unlikely to prevent a new assessment from taking place.

    Reassessment takes place either because of a change of conditions or because there is the possibility that change over time has invalidated the previous assessment. The starting point is that the previous assessment may no longer be valid. Whatever information DWP still hold about previous assessments can be used by the reassessment process, but usually fairly little reliance is placed on it.


    In your position, I would defer any discussion of the correctness of the Daily Living points allocated until you've completed whatever formal challenges you intend to pursue via reconsideration and appeal.

    With DLA, there was provision in the regulations for revision or supersession of an award to be limited to one component. Even so, the decision maker was not bound by the claimant's request only to reconsider one component and could decide to reconsider both. With PIP, I can't find a similar provision, so it is possible that requesting reconsideration of the Mobility component will lead to the Daily Living component being looked at again anyway.

    Ultimately, it is the outcome that matters. Unless you need to have a specific number of points under a specific activity (as you do, for example, when basing a Blue Badge application on a PIP Mobility component award), it might be best to leave any errors that do not undermine the correctness of the outcome.

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