Is there anything positive at all about ATOS

[Richard]

I sent them all the information they required, a while later told that I will be in the support group without having to go and jump hoops at the medical, if you are ill/disabled and “meet the criteria” you will be told you are unfit for work.

This page relates to the additional support group descriptors: you’ve already done most of the support group test as it overlaps with many of the highest scoring descriptors on the preceding two pages.
Absence or loss of control over extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or bladder, other than enuresis (bed-wetting) despite the presence of any aids or adaptations normally used.


(a) At least once a week experiences (i) loss of control leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or voiding of the bladder; or (ii) substantial leakage of the contents of a collecting device; sufficient to require the individual to clean themselves and change clothing.


Conveying food or drink to the mouth.
(a) Cannot convey food or drink to the claimant’s own mouth without receiving physical assistance from someone else;
(b) Cannot convey food or drink to the claimant’s own mouth without repeatedly stopping, experiencing breathlessness or severe discomfort;
(c) Cannot convey food or drink to the claimant’s own mouth without receiving regular prompting given by someone else in the claimant’s physical presence; or
(d) Owing to a severe disorder of mood or behaviour, fails to convey food or drink to the claimant’s own mouth without receiving — (i) physical assistance from someone else; or (ii) regular prompting given by someone else in the claimant’s presence.


Chewing or swallowing food or drink.
(a) Cannot chew or swallow food or drink;
(b) Cannot chew or swallow food or drink without repeatedly stopping, experiencing breathlessness or severe discomfort;
(c) Cannot chew or swallow food or drink without repeatedly receiving regular prompting given by someone else in the claimant’s presence; or
(d) Owing to a severe disorder of mood or behaviour, fails to— (i) chew or swallow food or drink; or (ii) chew or swallow food or drink without regular prompting given by another person in the physical presence of the claimant.


TAKEN FROM HERE - and yes I am shouting
I'm not smug at all fill the right boxes and you will get into the support group - end of conversation

http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/med2/indexxx.php

[susieboots]

Hi Richard, I appreciate what you are saying, but we cannot get away from the fact that the Assessors are getting it wrong, hence we must fight.

Just an example, a dear friend of mine fits ALL descriptors i.e:

Loss of control of bladder and bowels
cannot walk unaided
needs help to convey food to his mouth

etc etc. He suffered an accident in the Army more than 25 years ago, he has no use of his lower body at all, he then suffered strokes which has left him unable to communicate, eat etc. His loving wife cares for him unceasingly. He attended an ATOS medical and was awarded NIL points. His GP was astounded and so was their representative from the British Legion.

So, in essence we cannot say: if we fit the right boxes we get into support group, because they are getting it wrong all the time. Too many people are being hurt by the Governments targets, yes they do have targets to get disabled people back to work. The assessors are categorically being told by DWP to deliberately fail some of the claimants.

We shouldn't be turning on each other in our forum where we have an opportunity to help each other. I am so happy for people like yourself who get a just result, but some are not so lucky, but that doesn't mean they don't meet the descriptors - they are just the pawns in this game.

[vikstar]

This page relates to the additional support group descriptors: you’ve already done most of the support group test as it overlaps with many of the highest scoring descriptors on the preceding two pages.
Absence or loss of control over extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or bladder, other than enuresis (bed-wetting) despite the presence of any aids or adaptations normally used.


(a) At least once a week experiences (i) loss of control leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or voiding of the bladder; or (ii) substantial leakage of the contents of a collecting device; sufficient to require the individual to clean themselves and change clothing.


Conveying food or drink to the mouth.
(a) Cannot convey food or drink to the claimant’s own mouth without receiving physical assistance from someone else;
(b) Cannot convey food or drink to the claimant’s own mouth without repeatedly stopping, experiencing breathlessness or severe discomfort;
(c) Cannot convey food or drink to the claimant’s own mouth without receiving regular prompting given by someone else in the claimant’s physical presence; or
(d) Owing to a severe disorder of mood or behaviour, fails to convey food or drink to the claimant’s own mouth without receiving — (i) physical assistance from someone else; or (ii) regular prompting given by someone else in the claimant’s presence.


Chewing or swallowing food or drink.
(a) Cannot chew or swallow food or drink;
(b) Cannot chew or swallow food or drink without repeatedly stopping, experiencing breathlessness or severe discomfort;
(c) Cannot chew or swallow food or drink without repeatedly receiving regular prompting given by someone else in the claimant’s presence; or
(d) Owing to a severe disorder of mood or behaviour, fails to— (i) chew or swallow food or drink; or (ii) chew or swallow food or drink without regular prompting given by another person in the physical presence of the claimant.


TAKEN FROM HERE - and yes I am shouting
I'm not smug at all fill the right boxes and you will get into the support group - end of conversation

http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/med2/indexxx.php

The copy and paste from BandW does not explain your comments, The ESA Test on the page that you have given is only a guide to what you might be entitled to.

So you are now saying, that if you read up on the qualifying criteria, and tick the right boxes on an ESA50 then you are guaranteed an award of support group without a F2F. Now, come on, I think everyone wishes that this was true, unfortunately it isn't. BandW members do have a good success rate, but there are no guarantees.

As I said, there will be some cases, where it is clear cut that the claimant qualifies under one of the support group descriptors. This will not be the case with the majority of claimants.

I think people may have taken exception to your original comments, as the title of the thread was "Is there anything positive at all about ATOS"

Then you posted more or less insinuating that if you" are" ill/disabled and tick the correct boxes, ATOS will be fair with you and put you in the support group without a F2F.

I think the "are" has upset people, as that could read that people who are not placed into the support group without a F2F "are" not genuine, as they "are" not really ill/disabled.

Anyway, hopefully, that was not your intention. This is the problem with posting on forums, unless you make yourself absolutely clear, it is easy to be misinterpreted, and upset people.

I don't think that you have done justice to yourself by posting in anger. It would have been far more effective to simply explain what you actually meant to say.

My, that is a big emoticon though.

[westerby1]

It depends which Atos hcp you get. My first assessment I scored 0 points, fit for work. I complained to Atos and the DWP about the inaccuracies in the report and the decision was overturned with no need for an appeal. I was placed in the work related activity group. In April this year I had another assessment, my disabilities are no worse/ better, the Atos hcp recommended support group. However, the DWP decision maker thought I should be in the WRAG, it went to a senior decision maker in May and I am STILL awaiting the outcome!

[vikstar]

It depends which Atos hcp you get. My first assessment I scored 0 points, fit for work. I complained to Atos and the DWP about the inaccuracies in the report and the decision was overturned with no need for an appeal. I was placed in the work related activity group. In April this year I had another assessment, my disabilities are no worse/ better, the Atos hcp recommended support group. However, the DWP decision maker thought I should be in the WRAG, it went to a senior decision maker in May and I am STILL awaiting the outcome!

Exactly, your experiences, like many more claimants, just goes to show how fickle and inconsistent this process is.

As well as it depending on which HCP you might get, it may also depend on how many people they have already recommended an ESA award for, with respect to what their quotas allow for any given period.

Oh, I almost forgot, ATOS don't work to quotas, do they, it's all totally fair, independent and above board.

As you may have guessed, my tongue was firmly in my cheek when I wrote that last sentence.

[susieboots]

Hi BB, yes his situation makes my blood boil, the injustice of it. Also, they have never claimed HB or CT, his Army war pension pays the mortgage, and the ESA was their food and household bills, so, they are struggling. Their daughters are paying their bills and doing the shopping between them until this is all sorted out. Of course, it will be some time before they get to Tribunal!

[wobble1]

I think there is a grey area between those who have a very serious illness/disability and those who have health problems that make it impossible to work.
The problem is that this system was never set up to address that issue, it was set up to save money and as such far too many fall into that grey area.
I think Richard is implying that if you fall into that grey area you shouldn't get ESA. It then becomes a question of whose illness/disability is more "deserving", which ends up being totally subjective.

[seriouslyfedup]

So to sum up and and answer the first question asked by Blackball the answer is probably No.

But it was never designed to be of good news to anyone. I always have an image of a team of civil servants and DWP medical staff sitting throwing ideas round a table when they put the descriptor questions together. Putting a list of symptoms and conditions to initially exclude and narrowing it down as they went.

Then when someone said that's the descriptor finalised then, one shouts out 'No hold on , just realised someone with 'x' symptoms would be eligible so we need to reword it to exclude them as well'. And so the weeks went on, until the ESA assesment document as we know it was born.

[Blackball]

They all have to be in agreement. One part of the group of has a doubt then do not grant benefit. Something like 'guilty until proven innocent'. My case will most likely be a 12 angry men scenario, as it was before.

[flowerangelx]

Well. I am torn on this subject.

I have heard so many bad things about ATOS, and received a medical report that had a few lies in it, but overall, I found ATOS to be pretty understanding both times I've had assessments.

My dad, on the other hand, had a terrible experience with ATOS.