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Thread: UC and partner with No Recourse to Public Funds

  1. #1
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    UC and partner with No Recourse to Public Funds

    Hi All

    First of all thank you kimmy on this topic which is very helpful in my daughters situation below.

    My daughter receives (wife is her Appointee for ESA and PIP) IR ESA and is in the SG - as we were not sure how much extra she would get if she applied for UC, we were worried that if she applied for UC she would have to go for regular interviews and look for jobs but sounds as though this would not be required.

    Also, she now has a 6 month old child and husband work 15 hours Part time but his immigration status does not allow him to claim public funds.

    Therefore, if she was to apply for UC, how do we go about the fact that my wife is her Appointee and another thing is that I get CA for her as I am retired and do most of her daily tasks for her.

    Thank you

  2. #2
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Hi kmb786.

    I believe that we have already covered this back last August: https://youreable.livingmadeeasy.org...l=1#post175645

    About the only thing that has changed benefits wise since then is that the 63p earnings taper rate is now 55p.

    Did you seek any professional advice?

    Questions that weren't covered there:
    Your CA is not affected and it just carries on as it is.

    Your wifes appointeeship is a bit more difficult because there are different types of appointeeship - but unless it was made by a court, ie. she is court appointed to look after your daughters affairs, then it's almost certain that an new one would have to be set up with the DWP for UC purposes.
    They may want to know why the husband is not the appointee, but his being NRPF could explain why that can't be.
    Last edited by nukecad; 26-04-22 at 14:49.
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  3. #3
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    Hi nukecad

    Thanks for your reply and forgot about that previous thread.

    Regarding the appointee issue, my wife was made an Appointee very long time ago by the DWP when my daughter was getting DLA so might look into in either gettting the wife to be an appointee again or whether she just claims herself.

    She’s just dreading about whether she’s comfortable with applying for UC as she could get extra money because of her having a child aswell and the fact that she might also want to apply for her own house with a housing association because of the space in my current property which I own.

    Thanks

  4. #4
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    If she gets her own place then she'll have to claim UC anyway for the rent.

    One thing does strike me though which we haven't considered up to now - I believe your daughter is now aged 22, how old is the husband?
    UC pays less money than for those under 25. (with ESA it's 18 or a partner under 18).
    So the amounts before/after moving to UC need careful checking.

    If you could tell me exactly what benefits they currently get, and how much they currently get for each, then I can have a crack at seeing how their current benefits are worked out and what they could expect with UC.
    (The husbands earnings would also be useful in case they would mean that UC would be reduced).
    I assume that they are currently living with you, and so not paying rent to a landlord.


    On the appointee question you wife will still be an appointee for DLA, although it should have been changed from DLA to PIP. (that has probably also been carried over for ESA).

    However a new appointeeship will need to be set up for UC, if your daughter wants that, each benefit has their own seperate appointee system.
    See this for more information and how to apply to be an appointee for UC:
    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/universa...ion#appointees
    (Be aware that the UC staff are very poorly trained about appointeeships, and it can be a problem getting them to talk to an appointee).
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

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  5. #5
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    Hi nukecad

    Very thankful for your replies and for offering to look further. Details as follow.

    Daughter is 22yrs old
    Husband is 27yrs

    1. Daughter gets 266.65 IR ESA every 2 weeks paid into wife’s bank account as she’s appointee.
    2. She get Enhanced rate PIP for both components - The mobility amount fully goes to Motability for the car. This daily living amount goes into my/wife’s joint account seperate from the ESA account but should really change everything to one account
    3. She gets Child Benefit which is 84.60 every month I think.
    4.Husband works 15 hours part time and gets 579.15 per month net - no taxes to pay.
    5.They are currently living with me with no rent to pay
    6. The husband has NRPF until probably end-2024/early 2025 after which he will apply for indefinate leave to remain and should be able to claim benefits.
    7. Regarding appointee would it be best if she just applied for UC as herself with her own bank details and we just help her rather than set an appointee for UC.
    8. I receive CA for my daughter so could I become her appointee for UC and wife stays appointee for PIP. This way I can deal with the complicated things for my daughters UC claim as wife has limited knowledge/language barrier should she need to deal with anything on the UC side - this is an option if my daughter is not comfortable on her own to apply UC?

    Many thanks again and please let me know if you need any more details.

    EDIT:

    Just checked her recent IR ESA entitlement letter from last month and below are the weekly breakdown of figures from 11th April 2022 if it helps (Also she had her re-assessment on 1st June 2021 and was put in the Support Group):

    Your living expenses = 77.00
    Extra money because of the Disability Income Guarantee = 17.75
    LCW addition:
    Extra Money because you are in Support Group = 40.60

    Total IR amount = 135.35 which is 270.70 every two weeks

    Thanks
    Last edited by kmb786; 27-04-22 at 21:20.

  6. #6
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Thanks, I'll come back with some numbers later.

    Is your daughter OK with using a computer? (with help if needed).
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

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  7. #7
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    Hi nukecad

    Many thanks yes she can use a computer with help but I normally fill all forms in for her as she doesn’t understand them and these include non-benefit related forms aswell.

    Thanks

  8. #8
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Something does not seem right with those numbers.

    Child benefit is £21.80 a week for the Eldest/only child, (so £87.20 paid every 4 weeks), but you did say 'I think'.

    I can't quite get the £266.65 for ESA to fit with anything, not even last years rates, but you give this years ESA breakdown letter so that's OK.

    £77.00 is the Personal allowance for: a couple with the claimants partner (or both) under 18, or a single person over 25, or a lone parent over 18.
    £40.60 is LCWRA/Support Group for a single person.
    £17.75 is EDP for a single person.
    The Total is as you say £135.35, or £270.70 a fortnight.

    So those figures say that for ESA she is being classed as a lone parent over 18.

    However now the oddities:

    If, because as a mother with a NRPF partner, she is being "treated as a lone parent" then I would still expect the husbands earnings to be deducted from the IR ESA payment.

    Only if the DWP were not aware of the husband at all, or know about him and that he has NRPF but are not aware that he is earning, would I expect the full IR ESA to be paid.

    So the questions have to be:
    1) Are the DWP aware that there is a husband? and:
    2) Do they know that he is working/earning?


    I'm worried that if they are not aware of the husband, or not aware of his wages, then she has almost certainly been overpaid ESA.

    Also - I believe that if the DWP are aware of the husband then she should be getting the couples rate of EDP, £25.35 a week rather than £17.75, even though he has NRPF.
    (That could be an error by the DWP, it's a little known funny quirk in the ESA laws with the EDP and NRPF, see: https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/...d/12327/#86245 - The rest would still be single persons rate).
    Even so that wouldn't make up for the partners earnings.

    I'll come back with some UC stuff later, but thought this possible overpayment situation important.
    Last edited by nukecad; 28-04-22 at 11:26.
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  9. #9
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    Hi nukecad

    Thanks for your reply and my answers to above are as follow:

    1. We definitely informed DWP (Phone call) that she is now married and the husband has now joined her in the UK - this has changed as all new letters have her title changed from "Miss" to "Mrs"

    2. When her child was born in early October, on 18th October 2021, we wrote a letter (sent recorded delivery) to DWP (JobcentrePlus, ESA Barnsley, Mail Handling Site A, Wolverhampton, WV98 2AJ) - copy of letter content below:


    " Dear Sir/Madam,

    Name: *******
    Ref: *********

    I am the Appointee for the above (name of claimant) and the information below is about her.

    I am currently in receipt of ESA and have recently given birth to my first child (Male) who was born on **th October 2021.

    I have named him {***************}, but due to the current Covid-19 situation, the earliest appointment I have received to register his birth is on **th December 2021.

    Therefore, can you please update your records and send me any new forms in the post if I need to complete any as I am unable to complete any information online or over the phone.

    Also, I would continue to claim all benefits on my own name, as my spouse/partner is living with me but his immigration visa status states “No Recourse to Public Funds”

    Therefore, please update the above.

    Yours faithfully"

    The husband started part-time employment 30th Nov 2020 and I cannot remember if we have informed DWP about the employment as we did not see the need to inform DWP about his job as we assumed that he could not claim benefits and also the fact that he's working 15 hours a week part time.

    Thanks
    Last edited by kmb786; 28-04-22 at 13:37.

  10. #10
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    I cannot remember if we have informed DWP about the employment as we did not see the need to inform DWP about his job as we assumed that he could not claim benefits and also the fact that he's working 15 hours a week part time.
    Oops, that's what I was afraid of.

    They do need to know about his working and his earnings, and as your daughters partner they will affect IR ESA payments.

    If you have a partner working then their income is deducted from IR ESA, whether the partner can claim benefits themselves or not.

    If that partner works more than 20 hours then you can't get IR ESA at all.

    I'm afraid that it looks that she has been overpaid IR ESA since he started work, and they will almost certainly want it back.

    Don't do anything hasty yet though.

    The situation under UC will be much rosier because having a working partner in UC works differently to ESA, and I'll get back to you later with that but I have to go out for a while.

    PS. You've no doubt noticed that I asked for this to be split into it's own thread.
    It was getting a bit long and your circumstances are a bit unusual so deserved it's own thread.

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