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Thread: Mandatory/Managed Migration - statement

  1. #1
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Mandatory/Managed Migration - statement

    New guidance has now been issued (9th May 2022) see this post: https://youreable.livingmadeeasy.org...l=1#post177355

    Written Statement on Managed Migration from Therese Coffee published yesterday. (25th April 2022).
    https://questions-statements.parliam...-04-25/hcws780

    See Also Post #6 below.

    Apparently the Pilot, which only managed to migrate 38 out of 80 people, "provided valuable insights" and "allowed the department to understand the processes and tools required to complete a managed move".
    Really, all that from 38 pilot migrations?

    She frequently refers to Managed Migration as "Mandatory Migration".
    There is a sneaky semi-legal reason for that:
    She has to call it "Mandatory Migration" to distinguish that it's still the limited pilot legislation and not actual "Managed Migration" which they don't have the required legislation for yet.

    She states again that they will not be restarting the pilot but will start next month with "a multi-site approach across the country with a small number of claimants, approximately five hundred initially, being brought into the mandatory migration process."

    She contradicts herself in a couple of places, eg.
    "As I have said to the House previously, we are not resuming the Harrogate pilot."
    and then
    "We are resuming under existing regulations,"

    Come on lass, you are either not resuming or you are resuming, you can't have both.

    That wording seems to be because although not restarting the pilot they are using the legislation passed for the pilot - "Mandatory Migration".

    She is trying to get around the legal requirement to report the findings/conclusions from the pilot to parliament as required by the legislation that allowed the pilot, so that parliament can then scrutinise/review things before granting permission for full Managed Migration to take place.

    In plain language she is trying to claim they have 'more experience' as a reason to push through now exactly what parliament rejected before.

    She does note, although quietly, that the new legislation to allow full Managed Migration to take place is currenty being criticised by the Social Security Advisory Committee.
    That's because the new legislation tries to wipe out the limits and reporting required by the pilot legislation.
    Who knows what parliament will say about that when it gets to them?
    I suspect the government will try to sneak it through quietly when parliament is busy with something else (a resigning PM perhaps), or even as an 'emergency' act under Covid rules.

    Oh, and apparently UC is a part of their 'Leveling Up' agenda.
    Funny that, UC was in place long before they came up with the fiction of 'Leveling Up'.
    Last edited by nukecad; 09-05-22 at 14:04.
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    As we claim WTC I'm dreading it as we won't qualify for UC. That will cause a drop in income - so much for "levelling up".

  3. #3
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noisynoodle View Post
    As we claim WTC I'm dreading it as we won't qualify for UC.
    Is that because of savings?

    There are/will be 'special rules' about savings for people who will be migrated from Tax Credits to UC by managed migration.

    That may mean you can still claim UC even if you have savings of more than £16,000.

    These may be of interest, the second one mentions those 'special rules':
    https://www.litrg.org.uk/tax-guides/...ct-tax-credits
    https://www.litrg.org.uk/tax-guides/...iversal-credit

    I don't know just what those 'special rules' are/will be; I'll see if I can find anything recent about them.

    EDIT- This is from a briefing note (Universal Credit Policy Briefing Note 3); but it was 2011. I won't link to it here.
    e) People with capital of £16,000 or more who are entitled to Tax Credits before migrating to Universal Credit will receive transitional protection to protect their cash income.
    The way I read that is that the intention, in 2011, was that you will get a Transitional Addition/Transitional Element to make up for the Tax Credits, but everything else UC which would still be means tested.
    I'd assume that as UC increased each year then that TA/TE would reduce accordingly until it reached zero.
    Last edited by nukecad; 26-04-22 at 12:52.
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    It's because I have a Civil Service pension which just takes over the amount we "need to live on". Tax Credits are more generous and we do qualify for some income from that, partly because self-employed losses can be offset against other income. Putting our details into the Entitled To calculator results in no entitlement to UC.

  5. #5
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Putting our details into the Entitled To calculator results in no entitlement to UC.
    The Entitledto calculator will be correct under the 'standard' rules for a new UC claim.

    But it you are managed migrated then it not a 'standard' UC claim and special rules will apply - and I think that you should still get some Transitional Protection for the Tax Credits.

    That's why I always say to be careful if trying to use the calculators to do a migration-to-UC comparison, they are not designed to do comparisons only brand new claims.
    The calculators don't/can't take account of the special Managed Migration rules.
    (Although I wouldn't be surprised if they are working on one that will do a migration comparison, it will be a complex bit of programming to do).

    Most references about a TA for Tax Credits are about if you have savings above the normal UC limits, (I just found another one published yesterday, see the next post).
    But it should equally apply to the income limits. ie You can't get the standard UC because of other income, but should still get the Transitional Protection.
    It will of course depend on how the, not yet enacted, Managed Migration legislation is actually worded.

    You also mention self-employment there which throws something else into the mix.
    There are also special rules about SE if you are Managed Migrated, they are different to the 'standard' UC rules.
    Last edited by nukecad; 26-04-22 at 13:53.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    This was also published yesterday:

    "Completing the Move to Universal Credit
    Our 2022-24 strategy for implementing the final phase of Universal Credit"

    https://www.gov.uk/government/public...iversal-credit

    It's a bit stodgy with quite a few statistics and 'Case Studies' (by which they mean Examples).

    One thing of note is that the DWP themselves set out for the first time those who would gain by migrating now - and those who would lose out if naturally migrated, or if they voluntarily migrate themselves.

    Those who would normally gain money by moving to UC now (either by Natural Migration or voluntarily) are:
    Types of claimant that might see a higher entitlement under UC include:
    • Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) Support Group who are not in receipt of the Severe Disability Premium;
    • In-work households receiving Housing Benefit only or Working Tax Credit and Housing Benefit (likely to have higher entitlements under UC as the earnings taper rules are more generous);
    • People who do not work enough hours to receive Working Tax Credit; and
    • Households who are not currently claiming all the legacy benefits they are entitled to.
    There are also quite a number (eg. ESA WRAG only, JSA without disability premiums) who wouldn't see any difference in their money, but they aren't mentioned.

    Those who would lose money by moving to UC now are:
    To be absolutely clear - This is who could/would lose out IF THEY DON'T WAIT FOR MANAGED MIGRATION.
    Types of claimant that might see a lower entitlement under UC (and therefore likely to be eligible for transitional protection if they are moved through the managed migration process) include:
    • Households in receipt of Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) who are in receipt of the Severe Disability Premium and Enhanced Disability Premium
    • Households with the lower disabled child addition on legacy benefits;
    • Self-employed households who are subject to the Minimum Income Floor, after the 12 month grace period has ended.
    • In-work households that worked a specific number of hours (e.g. lone parent working 16 hours claiming Working Tax Credits), which discouraged progression in the labour market. This was not good for employees, but it also caused problems for employers, limiting their scope to design jobs to fit their business rather than the incentives created by the welfare system; and
    • Households receiving tax credits with savings of more than £6,000 (and up to £16,000) - UC entitlement is reduced in a different calculation to tax credits (households with savings of more than £16,000 are not normally eligible for UC).
    Last edited by nukecad; 26-04-22 at 13:56.
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    It looks from that as though it's very difficult to say what will happen in our case....though I think we'll be planning for the worst-case scenario.

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    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Yes, things are still a bit up in the air even though they are now pushing hard to try and get it all done by the end of 2024.

    As you say in your case you are best waiting for them to send you the managed migration notice, and then crossing your fingers there will be some Transitional Protection to come.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Quotes from the press release, my bolding:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/m...set-to-restart

    The process will resume on 9 May and will be carefully managed. Claimants will gradually be notified of when they will be asked to move to Universal Credit so as to complete the process by 2024.

    Everyone moving over from legacy benefits will have their entitlement to Universal Credit assessed against their current claims, with top up payments available for eligible claimants whose entitlement would have been reduced because of the change – ensuring they receive the same entitlement as on a legacy system.
    Although notifications will be gradually sent out across the country, people who are currently claiming legacy benefits do not have to wait to be moved to Universal Credit. Anyone who thinks they will be better off can move straight away. Claimants can check their entitlement for Universal Credit using an independent benefits calculator.

    People who are unsure whether they would be better off should wait to be moved as the transitional protection top up payments only apply to claimants moved by DWP, and people cannot reclaim their old benefits after switching to Universal Credit.
    Be very careful if using one of the online benefits calculators as suggested there.

    The calculators are designed to work out brand new claims - they are not designed to work out migrations.
    In particular they don't /can't include any Transitional Protection that you would get with a Managed/Mandatory Migration.
    There are also some quirks that they can't include for Natural or Voluntary Migrations.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member TimeLord's Avatar
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    Volunteer or compulsory migration that's tough to call it's inevitable so i think if people make the claim themselves they will be praying that it will go smoothly. I think many are sick of it all. If I was asked I probably would do it Provided that they had a plan in place. Or people might put themselves into something they didn't expect.

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