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Thread: Transferring to UC, do I need a fit note?

  1. #1
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    Transferring to UC, do I need a fit note?

    I'm moving in the next few weeks, thus triggering a move to UC. I'm currently receiving ESA in the support group.
    Will I need to get a fit note from the Dr saying I can't work in the interim, whilst I'm waiting for my UC claim to be processed?

    Any advice you can give will be greatly appreciated, thank you.

  2. #2
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Are you sure that you will have to claim UC?

    Firstly - You only neeed to claim UC if you want to claim benefit to pay the rent at the new place. (and not always then, see the second point).
    If you don't need UC to pay the rent then it's just a change of address for ESA.

    Second - Are you moving to a different local authority? Do you currently get Housing Benefit for the rent where you are now?
    If the new place is in the same LA area then you won't have to claim UC if you already have a Housing Benefit claim with them, it will just be a change of address and rent amount for your current Housing Benefit.
    However if you don't already have Housing Benefit, or if it's a different LA any new claim for help with rent has to be UC.

    If you do need to claim UC :-

    If you already have Support Group then as long as you still have it on the day that you claim UC it will transfer over to LCWRA in UC automatically without the need for fit notes or a new WCA.

    Don't close your ESA claim yourself, just make a claim for UC when you move (if you need to for rent) and everything will be done automatically.

    Your ESA (and Housing Benefit if you have it) will continue for 2 weeks after you claim UC.
    So for those two weeks you are getting double benefit your ESA/HB and then 5 weeks after you claim your full UC - and you don't have to pay any of that back.

    I've just moved to UC myself, (from ESA WRAG and Housing Benefit).
    I've written what happened to me step by step as it happened - everything from when I claimed UC in mid November to my first UC payment this Monday plus a message I got on the Journal this morning, you can read my UC journey here:
    https://youreable.livingmadeeasy.org...ust-claimed-UC
    Apart from a few appointment changes it's all been pretty painless.

    Yours should be a similar journey if you do have to claim UC.
    One thing that may(probably will) be different to mine is the Claimant Commitment.
    I had to do one at the Jobcentre because I am UC-LCW so expected to do work related activities.
    But another member here who claimed UC a week after I did was ESA Support Group, so that became UC-LCWRA with no activites required and he didn't have to go to the Jobcentre for a Claimant Commitment. They just did it on his journal/To-Do and he accepted it there.
    Last edited by nukecad; 22-12-21 at 12:18.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    Are you sure that you will have to claim UC?

    Firstly - You only neeed to claim UC if you want to claim benefit to pay the rent at the new place. (and not always then, see the second point).
    If you don't need UC to pay the rent then it's just a change of address for ESA.

    Second - Are you moving to a different local authority? Do you currently get Housing Benefit for the rent where you are now?
    If the new place is in the same LA area then you won't have to claim UC if you already have a Housing Benefit claim with them, it will just be a change of address and rent amount for your current Housing Benefit.
    However if you don't already have Housing Benefit, or if it's a different LA any new claim for help with rent has to be UC.

    If you do need to claim UC :-

    If you already have Support Group then as long as you still have it on the day that you claim UC it will transfer over to LCWRA in UC automatically without the need for fit notes or a new WCA.

    Don't close your ESA claim yourself, just make a claim for UC when you move (if you need to for rent) and everything will be done automatically.

    Your ESA (and Housing Benefit if you have it) will continue for 2 weeks after you claim UC.
    So for those two weeks you are getting double benefit your ESA/HB and then 5 weeks after you claim your full UC - and you don't have to pay any of that back.

    I've just moved to UC myself, (from ESA WRAG and Housing Benefit).
    I've written what happened to me step by step as it happened - everything from when I claimed UC in mid November to my first UC payment this Monday plus a message I got on the Journal this morning, you can read my UC journey here:
    https://youreable.livingmadeeasy.org...ust-claimed-UC
    Apart from a few appointment changes it's all been pretty painless.

    Yours should be a similar journey if you do have to claim UC.
    One thing that may(probably will) be different to mine is the Claimant Commitment.
    I had to do one at the Jobcentre because I am UC-LCW so expected to do work related activities.
    But another member here who claimed UC a week after I did was ESA Support Group, so that became UC-LCWRA with no activites required and he didn't have to go to the Jobcentre for a Claimant Commitment. They just did it on his journal/To-Do and he accepted it there.
    Hi Nukcad,
    Thanks for the prompt response.
    We are moving from the Midlands to Wales, so it will have to be a new UC claim.

    It's a joint claim, I'm the main claimant and my wife is also ill and unable to work, and she gets pip lower rate for both components.
    As we're both getting the SDP on ESA at the moment, which will we lose moving over to UC, do you know if she could be asked to attend any work related activity groups or will it just carry over as it is now?

  4. #4
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    If you want help with the rent at the new place then yes it will have to be UC, which will then migrate your IR ESA.
    (Note though that if part of your ESA is Contributions Based that can/should stay outside of UC).
    Remember though it's only if you want help with the rent that you will have to claim UC.

    Are you moving to a Private rental, or a Social Housing (council/Housing Agency) rental?

    AS you have ESA, presumably Support Group?, and she has PIP (and you currently get th 2 person SDP in your ESA) then you will both be in UC 'No Activities' group.
    You because it automatically transferes from ESA, your wife because she has PIP.

    You will lose the SDP on migration, that will be compensated for but not fully. (Typically a single person loses about £18 a week overall, about the same as the EDP which isn't compensated for).
    You will get an 'SDP Transitional Element' added to you UC.
    https://askcpag.org.uk/content/20641...al-sdp-element

    As you had the higher rate of SDP in your ESA then I believe that should be £405 a month, as opposed to the £583 you are currently getting with higher rate SDP.
    However that straight comparison it not the full story because UC-LCWRA pays more than ESA Support Group anyway, so what you lose will be less than the £178 difference there.

    I'll see if I can work up a proper comparision later for your circumstances as a couple.

    PS. Your wifes PIP is not affected by any of this, other than the change of address for letters.
    Last edited by nukecad; 23-12-21 at 07:21.
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    Thanks Nukecad, you're a good send mate.

    We're moving from one social housing to another and we will be claiming housing benefit.

    I thought we would lose the SDP entirely and not get any migrational help because we're causing our own change of circumstances?
    I just assumed we would, instead, have to claim the carers element for UC.

  6. #6
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parker View Post
    We're moving from one social housing to another and we will be claiming housing benefit.
    No - you will be claiming UC Housing Element.
    Only 'specified accommodation' and pensioners can still make a new claim for Housing Benefit, everyone else has to claim UC-HE

    As it's Social Housing then the full rent and service charges will be paid by the UC Housing Element.
    But not any service charge for utilities, for example some Housing Associations include water charges in the rent and then pay the water company, as those are standard utility charges UC-HE won't include them.

    As long as your ESA claim is still open when you claim UC your ESA status will get transferred accross and you will be entitled to the SDP-TE.
    That's why it's important not to close your ESA before claiming UC, if it's been closed then nothing transfers across.
    So leave the ESA open, just claim UC and let them sort it all out.

    You could look into claiming UC Carer Element, - at least I think that your wife could for looking after you.
    You will have LCW/LCWRA Element in payment (carried over from ESA) and you can't have Carer Element at the same time as that, but I think it should be still possible for your wife to get a Carer Element in those circumstances.
    This is because although her PIP will give her a 'No work requirements' in UC it won't pay a LCW/LCWRA element in her own right, so she isn't prevented from claiming a Carer Element.

    One other thing to be aware of is Council Tax.
    IR ESA automatically 'passports' you to full Council Tax Relief, UC doesn't so there has to be a calculation done at the council.
    Some have found that following a move to UC they have had to pay a few quid in Council Tax, it depends on their circumstances and on the council.
    (I've just moved to UC and I still don't have to pay any Council Tax, as I've now confirmed on that thread I linked above).
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  7. #7
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    There's a couple of things I need to clear up before I can calculate your probable UC amount.

    Which Group are you actually in for ESA?
    (If its WRAG then in what year did you first claim ESA?)
    You say that you are "both getting the SDP on ESA", so that means that have PIP (or DLA) yourself too?
    If you could say how much ESA you currently get I could work that out.

    And, do you know if your ESA has a Contribution Based entitlement?
    If you had to stop work and then claimed ESA, or if you were a transfer from Incapacity Benefit then it probably does.
    That doesn't change what you'll get overall, just where it comes from.

    For the moment I'll look at it as you being Support Group and you both having PIP/DLA, it would help if you confirm whether that's correct or not.
    Last edited by nukecad; 23-12-21 at 11:09.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Here we are:

    This is a calculation for a couple, one or both aged over 25, with ESA Support Group and both entitled to the SDP. (ie. both also have PIP DL any rate or DLA Care Higher rate).

    Current ESA:
    £117.40 Personal Allowance. (Couple 18+).
    £ 39.40 Support Group component.
    £ 24.60 Enhanced Disability Premium, couple. (Disability Income Guarantee)
    £134.60 Severe Disability Premium. (Higher rate, both partners qualify).
    £316.00 Total ESA payable each week.

    If that isn't what you are currently getting as ESA then let me know, because that will change the UC calc below as well.

    To compare to UC that is a monthly equivalent of 316 x 52.143 / 12 = £1373.10

    UC expectation:
    £ 509.91 Standard Allowance. (couple one or both aged over 25).
    £ 343.63 LCWRA Element.
    £ 405.00 SDP Transitional Element.
    £1258.54 UC Entitlement. (Not including Housing Element).

    So that's a loss of £114.70 a month which equates to £26.39 a week.

    As you can see it's like I said above and although SDP is compensated for you lose round about the EDP amount.
    (There is actually a High Court case going on to get that lost money back, it's been heard and we are currently waiting for the judgement on that).

    Note that I haven't included a UC Carer Element there, at £163.73 a month that would more than make up for the loss, but see * below.
    There is no test to get the Carer Element, you just have to declare that you are caring 35 hours for someone who has PIP, DLA, or AA.
    There is no need to claim Carers Allowance seperately as well. (And no point if the cared for person has PIP etc., the payment for CA just gets deducted from the UC payment anyway).
    See this for more info: https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/Ca...iversal-Credit


    Of course your UC will also have a Housing Element added for your full rent.
    There may also be deductions, eg. if you take a Universal Credit Advance (extra money is always handy when you are moving) then you have to pay it back over up to 24 months.

    Another couple of things to note:

    That SDP Transition Element never goes up but can come down as other elements increase.
    Which means that when UC rates go up each year yours won't change because the SDP-TE will go down by the same amount until it's all gone.
    If an element increases because of a change of circumstances, of if you add another element the SDP-TE will also go down*.


    *So if you do want to claim a Carer Element (£163.73/month) for your wife looking after you more than 35 hours a week then do it when you claim UC, if you do it later then the extra Carer payment will just reduce the SDP-TE and you end up with the same money.
    (A bit sneaky but that's how the transitional element law is written, so to avoid that happening you have to ask for the Carer Element when you first claim not afterwards).

    If part of your ESA is Contribution Based then that can/will stay outside of UC and still be paid on its own.
    That would be £114.10 a week, still paid fortnightly.
    You don't get extra money that way though, because the £114.10 is then deducted from your UC payment as 'other income'.

    PIP is not deducted from UC, and is not affected by UC at all.

    PS. You may have noted that I used 52.143 weeks in a year there, that is 365 days/7, it gives a truer weekly/monthly equivalent.
    (DWP use 52 weeks in a year in their calculations, so they penny pinch a day each year).
    Last edited by nukecad; 23-12-21 at 12:27.
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    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

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    Sorry for the late response nukecad. We have moved and everything has been so up in the air and I haven't had time to come back and check if you replied.
    Thanks ever so much for your time and effort helping me with the breakdown. I applied for UC last night and I took your advice to apply for the carer element on the new claim.

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