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Thread: new style esa

  1. #21
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    No, but yes, but sort of.

    The Health and Work Conversation is something different, although it is related, and you do get a new ESA49 after doing one.

    It's a type of 'Work Focused Interview' so although a mandatory activity for those in WRAG (or still in assessment phase), Support Group don't have to do them.

    The Health and Work Conversation is a questionaire for those in WRAG (or in assessment phase) that you fill in at the jobcentre, part on your own part with your work coach, discuss it, and then they issue a (new if you already had one) ESA49 based on the questionaire and discussion.

    It's not mandatory for Support Group, which will be why they never followed through with yours once you were awarded SG.

    However as you didn't do one when you claimed you may not have an ESA49 attached to your claim, in which case they will at some stage want a 5 minute 'chat' like Palmer had so that they can issue you with an ESA49 just to get the paperwork straight.

    There are a few little 'nothing' bits like this that got ignored during covid (because they were not that important so could be ignored) so they now need to be caught up on.
    (Plus in the particular case of the ESA49 it's only been a requirement for a few years, so older claims may not have done one yet).
    Last edited by nukecad; 20-10-21 at 14:29.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    PS. On this whole issue of catching up things that were missed during covid.

    You should see the fun they are having with UC claims at the moment.

    'Retrospective Verification' catching up on ID's they didn't get during covid.
    "Take photos:
    at your open front door with the number visible while holding todays local newspaper.
    with your hand on your street sign while holding .....
    with your children while holding ....."

    are just some of the daft things they are asking people to do.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b1940174.html

    There is actually a bigger issue for those who claimed UC because of covid but have now go back to work and closed their UC claims.
    The DWP are putting messages on their UC journal about having to verify their ID, which they don't (can't) see because they have gone back to work and closed their claim.
    When they don't reply with the verification the DWP are calling the whole claim 'invalid' and saying they have been overpaid all the UC that they got and have to pay it all back.
    The DWP have been quick to start taking deductions from wages to pay this "debt".
    They are of course dragging their feet over attempts to challenge the whole legality of what they are doing.

    If you made it up no-one would believe you.
    Last edited by nukecad; 20-10-21 at 15:40.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    PS. On this whole issue of catching up things that were missed during covid.

    You should see the fun they are having with UC claims at the moment.

    'Retrospective Verification' catching up on ID's they didn't get during covid.
    "Take photos:
    at your open front door with the number visible while holding todays local newspaper.
    with your hand on your street sign while holding .....
    with your children while holding ....."

    are just some of the daft things they are asking people to do.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b1940174.html

    There is actually a bigger issue for those who claimed UC because of covid but have now go back to work and closed their UC claims.
    The DWP are putting messages on their UC journal about having to verify their ID, which they don't (can't) see because they have gone back to work and closed their claim.
    When they don't reply with the verification the DWP are calling the whole claim 'invalid' and saying they have been overpaid all the UC that they got and have to pay it all back.
    The DWP have been quick to start taking deductions from wages to pay this "debt".
    They are of course dragging their feet over attempts to challenge the whole legality of what they are doing.

    If you made it up no-one would believe you.
    Wow! Just wow! How is that ok?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    No, but yes, but sort of.

    The Health and Work Conversation is something different, although it is related, and you do get a new ESA49 after doing one.

    It's a type of 'Work Focused Interview' so although a mandatory activity for those in WRAG (or still in assessment phase), Support Group don't have to do them.

    The Health and Work Conversation is a questionaire for those in WRAG (or in assessment phase) that you fill in at the jobcentre, part on your own part with your work coach, discuss it, and then they issue a (new if you already had one) ESA49 based on the questionaire and discussion.

    It's not mandatory for Support Group, which will be why they never followed through with yours once you were awarded SG.

    However as you didn't do one when you claimed you may not have an ESA49 attached to your claim, in which case they will at some stage want a 5 minute 'chat' like Palmer had so that they can issue you with an ESA49 just to get the paperwork straight.

    There are a few little 'nothing' bits like this that got ignored during covid (because they were not that important so could be ignored) so they now need to be caught up on.
    (Plus in the particular case of the ESA49 it's only been a requirement for a few years, so older claims may not have done one yet).
    Thanks Nukecad. I'm glad I saw this thread because when the phone call/letter comes asking for the 'chat' with the jobcentre to 'tidy up and issue me an ESA49', I won't freak as I would have otherwise because I wouldn't know why they'd want to talk to me!

  5. #25
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amy44 View Post
    Wow! Just wow! How is that ok?
    It isn't, and will soon end up in High Court for a Judicial Review if they don't stop it and pay any 'overpayment' they have 'recovered' back to the claimants again.
    I know from Rightsnet that a couple of pre-JR letters have already been sent to the DWP about cases.

    It doesn't seem to have made the attention of mainstream press yet, but I've no doubt there will be shouting when it does.

    It's happening because of the UC computer software (again), but nobody at UC is being willing to step in and overrule that software (And won't until they are ordered to).

    The software says a claim is invalid without the ID (even though that requirement for ID was deferred due to covid), so:
    if they don't provide ID when requested (even though they dont see that request, or if they do think it doesn't apply as they are no longer claiming UC) the claim gets marked as void/invalid, then:
    as an invalid claim it gets moved to the fraud/error section, which then:
    pass it on to Debt Management for recovery of the overpayment for a fradulent or invalid claim, which then:
    starts the process of recovering the 'overpayment'.

    So there are three places it could be stopped, first when the already closed claim is (wrongly) marked as invalid, second when it gets to the fraud/error section, third when debt management get it.
    It seems to be a case of 'Not my job guvnor' at all 3. Nobody is using common sense, they are just going through the motions.
    (Which seems to be one of the main problems at UC - it's what happens when peoples brains are overruled by rigid computer software, people just tick the boxes without thinking what they are actually doing).

    From reports so far it seems that often the first that the ex-claimants know about it is when the DWP Debt Managment start taking money from their wages.
    Last edited by nukecad; 21-10-21 at 09:58.
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  6. #26
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    There is actually a bigger issue for those who claimed UC because of covid but have now go back to work and closed their UC claims.
    The DWP are putting messages on their UC journal about having to verify their ID, which they don't (can't) see because they have gone back to work and closed their claim.
    When they don't reply with the verification the DWP are calling the whole claim 'invalid' and saying they have been overpaid all the UC that they got and have to pay it all back.
    The DWP have been quick to start taking deductions from wages to pay this "debt".
    They are of course dragging their feet over attempts to challenge the whole legality of what they are doing.

    If you made it up no-one would believe you.

    ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE...

  7. #27
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Although it shouldn't affect anyone here directly there seems to be interest in this UC no-ID = overpayment situation.
    So here is the main Rightsnet thread about it.

    The thread was started back in February but the first mention of one of these 'overpayments' recoveries because of 'no ID' was in August:
    https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/...d/17067/#83417

    There is a lot of discussion of the legality of the situation with these retrospective ID checks, and then the 'overpayment' recovery reports pick up again in September and October, here's a few from the same thread (there are others and other threads):
    https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/...067/P30/#83601
    https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/...067/P30/#83628
    https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/...067/P30/#84114

    The only 'kind of' justification yet from the DWP can be found here:
    https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/...067/P30/#84098
    That is saying that there was no 'official decision' to close the claims, so there can be no MRs because there is no decision to reconsider.
    (That 'no decision to MR' is a tactic that UC tries on a lot - 'it's been done by the computer so it's not a decision'. LOL).
    There is no mention there of how that then makes them think they can call it an 'overpayment' from the start of the claim and recover all the UC that was paid.

    At least one tribunal has refused to accept an appeal about this because “the appeal is struck out as it is outside the Jurisdiction of the Tribunal,”.
    Can't blame them realy, it's a job for a higher court that can set case law.

    No doubt that thread is going to be running for a while yet.
    Last edited by nukecad; 21-10-21 at 10:01.
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  8. #28
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    hello all again received letter after phone call the other day ESA claimants commitment
    my name date 20/10/21 goes as follows my commitment are a record of actions I have agreed to carry out
    to get ESA they are based on my current circumstances and what I have discussed with my work coach ,accepting my commitment is a condition of entitlement to ESA
    I will not receive ESA until I have accepted my commitment.
    Keeping my commitment if I do not agreed to action with out good reason my payments may reduced [ I must point out here that the phone call was the agreed action it just whats in the letter ]
    Accept your commitments [all claimants ] in return for ESA tell Jobcentre plus about any changes that could affect claim
    next page, [meeting with work coach] there is a little box which has being ticked and state this does not apply to me
    [ work preparation activities ] again there is a little box which has being ticked and state this does not apply to me
    [ extra activities ] I'll report any changes to my circumstances
    [ change in my circumstances ] I will tell Jobcentre plus immediately about any changes that could affect my claim
    [ Declaration ] again there is a little box which has being ticked and states I agree
    then again dated my name work coach signature and name
    hope this can help any one that received one of these letter [new style employment and support allowance] it was no problem at all
    nukecad was spot on with what he said about the process. So I thank him for that info in the beginning.
    regards palmer

  9. #29
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Thanks for reporring Palmer, it should help put other peoples minds at rest that there is nothing to worry about.

    One thing if you could-
    That letter/form sounds a bit different from the ESA49 that I know and have linked in the 'Standard forms' thread.
    It may just be an updated version.
    Does it have a number (and maybe a month/year) at the bottom of the page(s).
    If it's changed then I'll get a new link for that forms thread.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  10. #30
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    hello the first letter I got job centre plus [ new style ESA ] was NSESAL27 REF NUMBER AT THE BOTTOM PAGE RIGHT HAND SIDE .
    The second letter I got job centre plus [ new style ESA ] your claimant commitment, was NSESAL28 REF NUMBER AT THE BOTTOM PAGE RIGHT HAND SIDE .
    regards palmer

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