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Thread: JSA to UC (Premiums and Self employment)

  1. #11
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    Thank you for taking the time to reply - very helpful.

    Today I got accepted for a start-up loan - so I will definitely be moving on.

    In regards to the calculator I think I may have noticed my error that I didn't tick the "disabled and problems working" box. I have done this now and it calculates to £150/weekly.

    I am still confused about aspects of UC though, they talk about a start up period and minimum income floors, but I am not sure the calculator really helps. If the minimum income floor is minimum wage at 35 hours, then I would have thought they pay you the difference? For example in the calculator I put that I was going to take £0 and £400/month in two attempts as I don't want to take an income to improve business cash flow, but they returned the same result of £150/week payments.

    It also doesn't help in regards to the start up aspect of UC, they remove the minimum income floor for the first year.

  2. #12
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    There are actually two different issues here, they are just happening at the same time, so interact a bit.

    The first is changing from a legacy benefit to UC.
    The second is starting self employed work.

    Self Employment in UC and the MIF is very complicated, and I have to admit I don't fully understand the various rules about it.
    (Plus of course there have been various shenanigans with the MIF due to covid).
    https://revenuebenefits.org.uk/unive...-income-floor/

    You may want to see if you can find an advisor who can help guide you through it: https://advicelocal.uk/find-an-adviser

    When it comes to changing from Leagcy to UC; in your situation you seem a bit in-the-middle of various things, and constrained by timings.
    (It would have been simpler if you were on ESA rather than JSA, and so already had a Limited Capability award).

    If you are determined to start the SE work then I think I'd do it this way (There's a couple of options):
    1. In order to get the SDPTE paid in UC you need to claim UC whilst your current JSA is still open, so before you start working.
      You could declare when claiming that you have Limited Capability to work because of a disability, they will want to see evidence usually Fit Notes.
      You do this because you want LCW/LCWRA status in UC, see the bottom of this list.
      It is much easier to do this when claiming, it can be harder to get it done later.
    2. You could then start the SE work once UC is in place. (Yes that's odd if you are sending in fit notes, but not against the rules - you are saying that you are limited to work, not unable to work).
      Or you could wait and try and get a Limited Capability award in place before starting the work.
    3. If you haven't already declared that you can't work when making the claim then you still want to get referred to a Work Capability Assessment (usually triggered by providing fit notes for over 28 days) and LCW/LCWRA status.
      .
      Why you want Limited Capability status in UC:
      Having LCW/LCWRA status would remove the MIF altogether and give a 'Work Allowance' that you could earn without it affecting UC payments.
      Getting a LCWRA award would also pay extra money with UC.

    PS. What kind of business are you hoping to start?

    For general interest here's more about the JSA/ESA situation in this case:
    JSA was/is realy the wrong benefit for someone with a disability, but it was sometimes advised to claim that way for someone who had existing DLA/PIP.
    It's also possible that JSA may have been in place before DLA/PIP was awarded.
    The disability premiums made the JSA money roughly the same as ESA, and doing it that way meant that there was no need for Work Capability Assessments.
    And many/most people in that situation liked the idea of not having WCA's.

    But that does mean that with no WCA being done there is no Limited Capability award in JSA.
    That didn't realy matter, until it comes to switching to UC.

    The Limited Capability award from ESA will automatically carry over into UC from the start, and it would pay either the LCW/LCWRA element, and a SDPTE if applicable, as well as removing the MIF and giving a work allowance.
    As there is no Limited Capability award in JSA none of that happens, apart from the SDPTE if applicable. So you then have to apply for Limited Capability in UC if you want the rest.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  3. #13
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    Thanks again.

    I contacted my work coach who is always pretty kind. Whilst she's kind and actually encourages me to play the system, she doesn't really know much about UC, because she's often said to me I would never lose out under any circumstance. It would seem that is not the case. She emailed me to set an appointment for tomorrow and I expect her to tell me what you have said.

    In regards to the UC, it does state about a "start-up" period in which the MIF is removed. I don't understand MIF at all, because there's no calculator or explaination in any scenario. For example they talk about a taxi driver - but yet not say what he would get extra (WTF?). I don't know if it's a good thing that the MIF is even removed?!

    I suppose I am just hoping that at the very minimum that I can have access to a minimum of £150/week as then it is not a huge drop. I also have access to NEA, which makes it better.

    As for my business - I have decided after months of working on it - that I am going to join the world of amazon small business!

  4. #14
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    As you know New EnterPrise allowance does not affect UC, but it's only paid for 26 weeks.

    TBH I think that you should be talking to an independent advisor rather than your DWP work coach, who as you say doesn't know much about UC (other than the propaganda it seems).

    I have decided after months of working on it - that I am going to join the world of amazon small business!
    Sorry, but that tells us nothing except where you will be selling things.
    Will you be making things yourself? collecting craft items from others to sell on? importing things to sell on? something else?

    I do know a welfare advisor who's an Amazon small business - He writes books and sells them through Amazon (as well as elsewhere).
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  5. #15
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    Well, this is turning out to be grim.

    I went and saw my work coach who clearly doesn't know very much and she was adamant I wouldn't lose out. But it seems, as you say, it's complicated. So she got someone from UC and Self employment to contact me.

    It's astonishing that she doesn't know the answers to my questions either - She even told me advised me to contact Citizens Advice. I told her what the calculator said (£150/week), then she told me that it probably doesn't include a standard allowance.

    It's just painful to think that someone in it's own department can't give out information about it's department.

  6. #16
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    The DWP's training of 'front line' staff has always been poor, and with UC it's downright pitiful.

    I'm pretty sure they are taught the current propaganda to spout, and how to logon to the computer systems, but very little about the actual rules (and nothing about the laws).

    From some of the things you hear I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's a case of: "Don't worry about all that, just ask the claimant for the information the computer asks for, type in their answers, and the computer will work it all out".

    So if you ask about something before the computer has worked it out for them they haven't got a clue.
    And once they do input it into the computer it's too late to back out.

    Oh, and if you ring UC you are probably not talking to a DWP employee anyway, they have contracted the UC enquiry call centres out to Serco.
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...plans-23964267

    UC is over-reliant on their computer system and don't like to admit that it can be wrong, then don't have a clue what to do when it get things wrong or won't do things correctly.

    Example:
    There is a long running error with bedroom tax exemptions on the UC computer, the computer was never programmed to handle the circumstances and so has been overpaying certain disabled people for a couple of years now, the DWP know about it but don't have a clue how to fix it, they could check and adjust the calculations manually each month but aren't, they are just letting the overpayments continue. The worry is that they are eventually going to ask for all that overpaid money back from the mostly unsuspecting claimants.
    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...tgoing-1124035
    Last edited by nukecad; 26-10-21 at 14:54.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

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