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Thread: Moving to UC, after a house move.

  1. #1
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    Moving to UC, after a house move.

    Hi all, could someone help me please.

    We are moving on Monday to a property in another council area. My husband claims ESA and has done for years. He is in the support group. Becasue of the move we have been told we need to now claim Universal Credit. We have 3 children (7, 12 and 19)
    I have tried to start a claim tonight and its really confusing me ( I may just be really tired after moving stuff all day) Husband has started the claim, and it tells him to link to my claim? Does this mean i have to start my own claim? There is also nothing about what he gets now, and they said he may need a fit note? So does this mean he is starting completely again. I thought I had read somewhere that he wouldn't need to do all that again, and it is starting to stress us both out. I am keen to get the claim started for our rent but this is all really confusing

  2. #2
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    As you are moving to a new area then what used to be Housing Benefit from your old council will have to be changed to Universal Credit 'Housing Element' from the DWP.
    This means that all other Income Related benefits that you claim will also be 'Naturally Migrated' into UC.

    The new UC claim should be as a couple which is why it is saying to link them together if you try to make separate claims.

    There should be no need for fit notes or a new assessment for your partner because the ESA Support Group just automatically carries over into UC-LCWRA, the bit about fit notes is just standard for new claims and doesn't apply if you are 'migrating' to UC from other benefits.
    (But he may be due for a reassessment anyway?)

    Have a read of this link and then come back with any other questions that you may have:
    https://www.youreable.com/forums/sho...edit-the-facts

    A couple of questions though:
    Is his ESA entirely Contribution Based or is (part of) it Income Related?
    The easest way to dertimine that for you is does it include an amount for you as a partner or not?
    If you are comfortable with telling us how much the ESA is then we can work out if (part of) it is income related or not, and if it's income realted what it includes and what that may mean in UC.
    Last edited by nukecad; 22-05-21 at 22:03.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    As you are moving to a new area then what used to be Housing Benefit from your old council will have to be changed to Universal Credit 'Housing Element' from the DWP.
    This means that all other Income Related benefits that you claim will also be 'Naturally Migrated' into UC.

    The new UC claim should be as a couple which is why it is saying to link them together if you try to make separate claims.

    There should be no need for fit notes or a new assessment for your partner because the ESA Support Group just automatically carries over into UC-LCWRA, the bit about fit notes is just standard for new claims and doesn't apply if you are 'migrating' to UC from other benefits.
    (But he may be due for a reassessment anyway?)

    Have a read of this link and then come back with any other questions that you may have:
    https://www.youreable.com/forums/sho...edit-the-facts

    A couple of questions though:
    Is his ESA entirely Contribution Based or is (part of) it Income Related?
    The easest way to dertimine that for you is does it include an amount for you as a partner or not?
    If you are comfortable with telling us how much the ESA is then we can work out if (part of) it is income related or not, and if it's income realted what it includes and what that may mean in UC.
    Thankyou Nukecad. After years dealing with forms and ESA etc etc, it is really odd getting used to this new system. My husbands ESA does include me. I am pretty sure its all Income based. He gets £362 a fortnight. He hasn't had a reassesment ever, the last time was when he had to go to court to fight for his claim and that was about 7 years ago.

  4. #4
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiggywoo View Post
    He gets £362 a fortnight.
    That's ESA for a couple, claimant in Support Group, with the Enhanced Disability Premium (Disability Income Guarantee).

    Which tells us that it is indeed (at least partly) Income Related and so will be migrated into the UC.

    It is possible that it is partly Contribution Based, it's hard to be sure without more details.
    What would happen in that case is that the CB ESA stays out of UC and is still paid seperately as a single persons claim (£114.10 a week), the ESA money is then deducted £ for £ from UC leaving you with the same overall.
    (Alternatively you could close the CB ESA and just get the full UC, the difference there is that CB ESA would not be affected if you got a windfall in future whereas UC would be).
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    That's ESA for a couple, claimant in Support Group, with the Enhanced Disability Premium (Disability Income Guarantee).

    Which tells us that it is indeed (at least partly) Income Related and so will be migrated into the UC.

    It is possible that it is partly Contribution Based, it's hard to be sure without more details.
    What would happen in that case is that the CB ESA stays out of UC and is still paid seperately as a single persons claim (£114.10 a week), the ESA money is then deducted £ for £ from UC leaving you with the same overall.
    (Alternatively you could close the CB ESA and just get the full UC, the difference there is that CB ESA would not be affected if you got a windfall in future whereas UC would be).
    Thankyou nukecad and sorry for late reply. We currently have no internet! I have managed to do the applications and my husband has had a telephone call with someone who has asked for a fit note! We have no contribution ESA just income. I am getting very mixed messages when I ask, but it sounds like they are reassessing him if asking for a fit note, would that sound right?

  6. #6
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    No that's not right.

    I assume you said on the UC application that he already gets ESA in the Support Group.

    His SG status from ESA carries automatically into UC with no need for fit notes and no need for reassessment.
    The UC LCWRA element should be paid from the start of the claim without the usual 3 months waiting.
    That's written plainly in law, I quote it in this post: https://youreable.livingmadeeasy.org...l=1#post133915

    Unfortunately the UC phone jockeys' and work coaches training is poor and they don't always know that, so they just follow their poor training and ask for fit notes as if it were an entirely new claim.
    (They may also tell you the wrong thing about if your ESA includes CB or not - they are taught little or nothing about ESA and so just assume it's all IR).

    It's something that we used to see a lot of but they had learnd on the job and had been getting better and most could get it right.
    But then the DWP recruited a couple of thousand new ones during covid who have yet to learn that their poor training doesn't cover migrations properly.

    What you should do:
    Query why they are asking for fit notes on the UC journal, payments section.
    State again that he is migrating to UC from ESA Support Group so "The Universal Credit (Transitional Provisions) Regulations 2014" Regulation 19 applies and there is no requirement for fit notes or a new assessment.
    (You could ask them to refer to a senior colleague, or a Decision Maker.

    PS. I know what you mean about the internet, I move into a new flat next week and won't have a landline for a week or so.
    Luckily I have data on my mobile and can just tether it to the laptop, or turn the phone into a mobile Wifi hotspot.
    I'm staying within the same LA area so don't need to migrate to UC, I'll just stay on HB with a change of circumstances. (As long as my council know what they are doing).
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    No that's not right.

    I assume you said on the UC application that he already gets ESA in the Support Group.

    His SG status from ESA carries automatically into UC with no need for fit notes and no need for reassessment.
    The UC LCWRA element should be paid from the start of the claim without the usual 3 months waiting.
    That's written plainly in law, I quote it in this post: https://youreable.livingmadeeasy.org...l=1#post133915

    Unfortunately the UC phone jockeys' and work coaches training is poor and they don't always know that, so they just follow their poor training and ask for fit notes as if it were an entirely new claim.
    (They may also tell you the wrong thing about if your ESA includes CB or not - they are taught little or nothing about ESA and so just assume it's all IR).

    It's something that we used to see a lot of but they had learnd on the job and had been getting better and most could get it right.
    But then the DWP recruited a couple of thousand new ones during covid who have yet to learn that their poor training doesn't cover migrations properly.

    What you should do:
    Query why they are asking for fit notes on the UC journal, payments section.
    State again that he is migrating to UC from ESA Support Group so "The Universal Credit (Transitional Provisions) Regulations 2014" Regulation 19 applies and there is no requirement for fit notes or a new assessment.
    (You could ask them to refer to a senior colleague, or a Decision Maker.

    PS. I know what you mean about the internet, I move into a new flat next week and won't have a landline for a week or so.
    Luckily I have data on my mobile and can just tether it to the laptop, or turn the phone into a mobile Wifi hotspot.
    I'm staying within the same LA area so don't need to migrate to UC, I'll just stay on HB with a change of circumstances. (As long as my council know what they are doing).

    Internet is a nightmare...and trying to do anything on the phone is a real pain! Ours has been delayed due to a problem with openreach. 6 days in now and we are all feeling it!

    I am not sure if I have made a huge mistake on his application. It was a bit of a nightmare trying to sort it as he has no phone or email of his own. I do not remember it asking anywhere about his ESA or support group. Just if he was on any benefits and now i am stressing as I think I filled it out wrong! I was very tired when I did it!

    Have asked in journal and put what you said so hopefully it will get sorted at some point

  8. #8
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Like I say I have a data allowance on my PAYG mobile and so just set the phone to be a mobile wifi hotspot.

    I use an EE PAYG 'Pack' which I can choose how much data I want included each month, unused data rolls over to the next month if you take a compatible pack.
    I find I'm using 20GB, 8GB, 8GB over 3 months and then start again.

    I don't stream TV from it of course, that would soon eat the data allowance, but for general use it's plenty.

    It's simple to do and your computer isn't bothered where the wifi is coming from, as far as it's concerned your phone is just another wifi router.
    It's best to keep you phone plugged into a charger while using it as a hotspot - because it's sending out a wifi signal it uses more power so will drain the battery faster.

    Of course if you don't have a data allowance in you mobile plan then it costs quite a bit to use data.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    Like I say I have a data allowance on my PAYG mobile and so just set the phone to be a mobile wifi hotspot.

    I use an EE PAYG 'Pack' which I can choose how much data I want included each month, unused data rolls over to the next month if you take a compatible pack.
    I find I'm using 20GB, 8GB, 8GB over 3 months and then start again.

    I don't stream TV from it of course, that would soon eat the data allowance, but for general use it's plenty.

    It's simple to do and your computer isn't bothered where the wifi is coming from, as far as it's concerned your phone is just another wifi router.
    It's best to keep you phone plugged into a charger while using it as a hotspot - because it's sending out a wifi signal it uses more power so will drain the battery faster.

    Of course if you don't have a data allowance in you mobile plan then it costs quite a bit to use data.
    Thankyou, luckily internet os now back on!
    I have bow been told by an advisor via my journal that my husband does not need to provide a fit note, and that the part for that will be removed from his to do list....it hasnt been. Today he recieved a payment for slightly more than normal, I have called them and that is his last ESA payment. So looks like everything will now come monthly under Universal credit. Very confusing when told by 3 different people at dwp that his ESA will be seperate. Hopefully all will be correct when we get first statement in 3 weeks time!

  10. #10
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    The process can get confusing, and the DWP telephone jockeys (and their letters) are pretty poor at explaining what is going on.

    Isn't if fun waiting on the phone? I was on for 40 minutes yesterday before I got to talk to someone at ESA about changing my address.
    (BTW The DWP also tell HMRC for your TAX and NI so you don't need to do that seperately, when I phoned HMRC today they said it had already been changed).

    Good to hear that they saw sense and removed the requirement for fit notes, even if they haven't taken it off the journal yet.

    As said above it's not clear if his ESA is all Income Related or Part Contribution based / part Income Related.

    If his claim is Income Related only then that should be your last Income Related ESA and should include a 2 week overlap with the UC payments.
    (You get 2 weeks run on of both IR ESA and of any Housing Benefit when migrating to UC).
    So, depending on when he last got paid, slightly over two weeks money may be about right.

    However if his claim is part Contribution Based and part Income Related (which is seems it may be if the DWP were also telling you it will still be seperste) then the run on of ESA should only be for the IR part and the CB part should contiuue seperately but at a single persons rate. (Which will then be deducted £ for £ from the UC payment to leave the same overall as just UC).

    They have been known to get it wrong and entirely close the entire CB+IR ESA claim when they shouldn't, but that doesn't affect what you get paid overall as it's not then deducted £ for £ from UC.
    (It's only if you have savings over £6K or a working partner, or expect to have them in future, that it would make a difference).

    As you say it should all become clearer once you get your first UC statement/payment.
    Once you get that then if you want to come back and says what was paid when for both ESA and UC we can see if it all sounds right.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

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