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Thread: No £20 Uplift - Finally going to High Court

  1. #21
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeSkies View Post
    Mmm. Contributions-based ESA claimants could therefore appear to be more hard working than income-only ESA claimants. Probably best they just up everyone by £20 to make it fair.
    They can legally justify not giving it to 'CB only' benefits.

    That justification is that UC and Tax Credits which did get the uplift are income related benefits.

    If you have a CB only benefit then you have enough income or savings that it prevents you from getting income related benefits.
    (Arguably enough income or savings that you don't need the extra £20).

    So the uplift would not apply to 'New Style' ESA or JSA because those are CB only, and similarly wouldn't apply to any 'Old Style' ESA that was CB only.
    (There shouldn't be any 'Old Style' CB JSA anymore, they will have all run out and moved to IB JSA or UC).

    For a similar reason it would not apply to PIP either - because PIP is not an income related benefit.

    Basically the argument that is going to High Court is that if a benefit is going to be migrated to UC then it should have got the same uplift that UC did.
    Otherwise it's discrimination based simply on the timing of when you migrate.

    That principle of equivalence/equality between UC and legacy benefits which will be migrated already has a precedent, which will have a big bearing on this Judicial Review and should make it quicker/easier to rule on.
    The SDP Judicial Reviews (TP & AR) ruled that they can't treat people differently simply because of the timing of when they will migrate to UC.
    If they do treat them differently then that's unjustifed and is discrimination.
    That's why they had to bring in the SDP gateway to prevent Natural Migration for those with SDP, and now the Trasitional Element for those with SDP who Naturally Migrate to UC.

    An extra consideration that points up that it's discrimination based simply on the timing of migration:
    If they had got Managed Migration done when they said they would then most claimants would have already been migrated to UC and so got the uplift.
    It's only because they didn't get Managed Migration done on time that people are still on legacy benefits, and so missed out on the uplift through no fault of their own.
    Last edited by nukecad; 02-05-21 at 09:39.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Just to add that you need to be clear about what makes it discrimination in IR benefits and not just unfair, and why it may be unfair but not discrimination to leave CB benefits out of the uplift.

    Those on IR benefits, whether that's UC or Legacy, are in the same circumstances and will eventually all be migrated to UC so should be treated the same until they can be migrated, otherwise it's direct discrimination of those in identical circumstances apart from which 'version' IR benefit they have.
    And they were treated the same and got the same amount of benefits (within a penny a week) until the covid uplift came along.

    Those on CB benefits only are in different circumstances to those on UC, and CB benefits will not be migrating to UC, so it's not discrimination to treat them differently from those on UC.
    Arguably unfair, but not discrimination in legal terms.
    Their circumstances are different or they would also be getting IR benefits (either legacy or UC).

    So whilst most will agree that it's unfair to leave CB only benefits out of the uplift it's not discrimination as covered by the law. (The Equalities Act 2010).

    You have to be careful and make that distinction between what is unfair and what is discrimination according to the law.
    Many things in life are unfair but not discrimination in law.

    You can only complain/grumble/argue about unfairness. - You can take discrimination to court.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarBright View Post
    Whoop!

    I said on another thread about this chill out stop worrying about it someone will bring it to court & we will end up with a nice back payment one day (hopefully)

    How many months have they paid the £20 uplift so far? In other words how much is the back pay so far?
    It's OK to say stop worrying if you are OK and coping, but many were not coping and the £20 uplift would have helped them in their time of need, and that's where people's concern came from, for those who could not hold on what could be years to get it if it's backdated, and that's a big if. It may never be backdated to those who missed out.

  4. #24
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    That's not what I meant, that often happens on forums because you cant see the person's body language & you don't know me.

    I would never say chill out stop worrying about it if someone who had no money & was starving & had other family members starving too. Which is the way you are portraying I said that.

    Don't judge other people's comments. If you were unsure how I meant it you could of asked

  5. #25
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    Ach We`ll never get it in a million years, end of!

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by StueyR View Post
    Ach We`ll never get it in a million years, end of!
    You made me laugh thanks x

    I wouldn't want to put money on it

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    They can legally justify not giving it to 'CB only' benefits.

    That justification is that UC and Tax Credits which did get the uplift are income related benefits.

    If you have a CB only benefit then you have enough income or savings that it prevents you from getting income related benefits.
    (Arguably enough income or savings that you don't need the extra £20).

    So the uplift would not apply to 'New Style' ESA or JSA because those are CB only, and similarly wouldn't apply to any 'Old Style' ESA that was CB only.
    (There shouldn't be any 'Old Style' CB JSA anymore, they will have all run out and moved to IB JSA or UC).

    For a similar reason it would not apply to PIP either - because PIP is not an income related benefit.

    Basically the argument that is going to High Court is that if a benefit is going to be migrated to UC then it should have got the same uplift that UC did.
    Otherwise it's discrimination based simply on the timing of when you migrate.

    That principle of equivalence/equality between UC and legacy benefits which will be migrated already has a precedent, which will have a big bearing on this Judicial Review and should make it quicker/easier to rule on.
    The SDP Judicial Reviews (TP & AR) ruled that they can't treat people differently simply because of the timing of when they will migrate to UC.
    If they do treat them differently then that's unjustifed and is discrimination.
    That's why they had to bring in the SDP gateway to prevent Natural Migration for those with SDP, and now the Trasitional Element for those with SDP who Naturally Migrate to UC.

    An extra consideration that points up that it's discrimination based simply on the timing of migration:
    If they had got Managed Migration done when they said they would then most claimants would have already been migrated to UC and so got the uplift.
    It's only because they didn't get Managed Migration done on time that people are still on legacy benefits, and so missed out on the uplift through no fault of their own.
    Tax credits is an income related benefit as many working people still claim and get the disabled elements to it, it is only the interest on savings that is calculated as savings related.

    I have not seen anywhere where it states that it is only Income related benefits, it just states legacy benefits (ESA)
    Last edited by markt1968; 11-05-21 at 00:11. Reason: mistake

  8. #28
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    Working tax credit IS income related. You only qualify for working tax credit if you have a low income.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by noisynoodle View Post
    Working tax credit IS income related. You only qualify for working tax credit if you have a low income.
    I've edited post but don't know why I wrote that.
    I was working 40hrs a week and claiming WTC (got disability element also) and now claim NS ESA and I lost the uplift in Dec.

  10. #30
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markt1968 View Post
    I was working 40hrs a week and claiming WTC (got disability element also) and now claim NS ESA and I lost the uplift in Dec.
    Just to note that NS ESA is not a 'Legacy Benefit' - it's a 'New Style' benefit and is Contribution Based only.
    The legacy benefit is 'Old Style' ESA.

    Presumably you have savings/capital that prevent you from claiming UC as well as NS ESA? Even though you did qualify for WTC.

    It's slightly odd in that way because although Tax Credits are Income Related they don't have any savings/capital limit like all the other IR benefits do
    So you could still get WTC/CTC even if you had savings/capital over £16,000 that would stop you getting other IR benefits.
    That difference is because Tax Credits are administered by HMRC not by the DWP. And it's one of the reasons why they are being migrated to UC, so as to come under the same limits.
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