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Thread: Work Capability telephone assessment

  1. #21
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Your UC payment does include LCWRA, your partners earnings deduction amount shows/confirms that.

    But the £310 you say you get doesn't seem right, unless there is something we have missed. (And I think I know what we may have missed - should that £310 be £370?).

    Here are my calculations from what you have said up to now:
    These are the numbers for now and will change in April.

    Pre calculations:
    £ 74.35 ESA Personal Allowance.
    £ 39.20 Support group.
    £113.55 /week CB ESA SG.

    £300.00 Partners Earnings.
    £292.00 Work Allowance. (because you have LCW/LCWRA and a Housing Element included in your UC).
    £ 8.00 Earnings counted for deduction at 63p in the £1. (Taper rate).
    £ 5.04 To be deducted for earnings. (£8 x 0.63).

    The calculation that was here has been revised to include Carers allowance - see below.

    Which is £166.72 a month more than the £310 that you say you currently get, so we need to try and work out where that difference is coming from.
    (If it's their mistake it's best if you can point out just where they have gone wrong).

    My first thought is if your partner claims Carers Allowance for looking after you?
    That would make sense if you are being paid £370 a month UC.

    If it isn't Carers Allowance (or if it is in fact £310) then -

    You need to check your UC payment statement breakdown to see that the amounts are the same as I have for:
    Total before adjustments.
    Total adjustments.

    If the amount before adjustments isn't the same as I have then check it for each of:
    Standard Allowance.
    LCWRA element.
    Housing element.
    (Carer element if there is one).

    If the total deductions aren't the same as I have then check each of:
    Is the deduction for ESA the £454.20 that I have there?
    (Is there a £269 deduction for Carers Allowance?)
    How much is being paid to your landlord? (You may be paying some rent arrears as well as rent?).
    Is there a deduction for paying back an advance?
    Is there a deduction for a sanction?
    Are there any other deductions? (eg. Overpayments, 3rd party deductions for electricty/gas/water, etc.)
    Last edited by nukecad; 18-03-21 at 17:28.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    Your UC payment does include LCWRA, your partners earnings deduction amount shows/confirms that.

    But the £310 you say you get doesn't seem right, unless there is something we have missed. (And I think I know what we may have missed - should that £310 be £370?).

    Here are my calculations from what you have said up to now:
    These are the numbers for now and will change in April.

    Pre calculations:
    £ 74.35 ESA Personal Allowance.
    £ 39.20 Support group.
    £113.55 /week CB ESA SG.

    £300.00 Partners Earnings.
    £292.00 Work Allowance. (because you have LCW/LCWRA and a Housing Element included in your UC).
    £ 8.00 Earnings counted for deduction at 63p in the £1. (Taper rate).
    £ 5.04 To be deducted for earnings. (£8 x 0.63).

    UC calculation
    £ 594.04 UC Standard Allowance couple over 25. (Includes covid uplift).
    £ 341.92 LCWRA.
    £ 423.00 Housing Element. (Your figure)
    £1358.96 Total UC amount before deductions.

    £ 5.04 Deduction for earnings above Work allowance.
    £454.20 Deduction for income from ESA. (4x £113.55).
    £423.00 Rent direct to landlord. (Your figure)
    £882.24 Total adjustments to be deducted.

    £1358.96 Total UC amount before deductions.
    £ 882.24 Total adjustments to be deducted.
    £ 476.72 UC payable.

    Which is £166.72 a month more than the £310 that you say you currently get, so we need to try and work out where that difference is coming from.
    (If it's their mistake it's best if you can point out just where they have gone wrong).

    My first thought is if your partner claims Carers Allowance for looking after you?
    That would make sense if you are being paid £370 a month UC.

    If it isn't Carers Allowance (or if it is in fact £310) then -

    You need to check your UC payment statement breakdown to see that the amounts are the same as I have for:
    Total before adjustments.
    Total adjustments.

    If the amount before adjustments isn't the same as I have then check it for each of:
    Standard Allowance.
    LCWRA element.
    Housing element.
    (Carer element if there is one).

    If the total deductions aren't the same as I have then check each of:
    Is the deduction for ESA the £454.20 that I have there?
    (Is there a £269 deduction for Carers Allowance?)
    How much is being paid to your landlord? (You may be paying some rent arrears as well as rent?).
    Is there a deduction for paying back an advance?
    Is there a deduction for a sanction?
    Are there any other deductions? (eg. Overpayments, 3rd party deductions for electricty/gas/water, etc.)
    Thank you very much Nuke as you spend good time for me
    Apologize this make sense when I am on PIP my wife getting careers allowance and they are deducting £291.42 also. I am not good in math, you thing after this deducting £310 is right money or may I can write something in UC journal. Thanks again

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by anees292 View Post
    Thank you very much Nuke as you spend good time for me
    Apologize this make sense when I am on PIP my wife getting careers allowance and they are deducting £291.42 also. I am not good in math, you thing after this deducting £310 is right money or may I can write something in UC journal. Thanks again
    Must Apologize again as I read your advise again and I feel need to write everything what showed in account.
    What I am entitled:
    Standard Allowance: £594.04
    Housing: £420.85
    Career: £162.92
    LCWRA: £34192
    Total entitlement before deductions: £1519.73

    Deduction.
    As my wife work: £5.04
    LCWRA: £492.05
    Career's Allowance: £291.42
    Paying Landlord: £420.85
    Total Deductions: £1209.36

    Final Pay: £310.37
    If you find some wrong please guided me what can I do thanks again for you time.

  4. #24
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Thanks for listing those numbers,

    I had thought there must be Carers Allowance involved for things to make more sense.

    I've just popped online for a quick look round before I've got to go for a covid jab shortly, I'll take a look at the numbers you've given there when I get back this afternoon.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  5. #25
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    Off topic here, but got to say a huge thanks to nukecad for spending so much time helping and giving us all advice.

  6. #26
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Having checked the numbers then what you are getting for UC is correct.

    Re-doing the calculation from above to add in the Carers Allowance and UC-Carer Element, and adjusting for your new figures now with pence included.
    (I've also put it in the same order as your UC statement)

    £ 594.04 UC Standard Allowance couple over 25. (Includes covid uplift).
    £ 420.85 Housing Element. (Your figure)
    £ 162.92 Carer Element.
    £ 341.92 LCWRA.
    £1519.73 Total UC amount before deductions.

    £ 5.04 Deduction for partners earnings above the Work allowance.
    £ 492.05 Deduction for income from ESA-LCWRA. (£113.55 x 52 / 12).
    £ 291.42 Deduction for income from Carers Allowance. (£67.25 x 52 / 12).
    £ 420.85 Rent direct to landlord. (Your figure).
    £1209.36 Total adjustments to be deducted.

    £1519.73 Total UC amount before deductions.
    £1209.36 Total adjustments to be deducted.
    £ 310.37 UC payable.

    I think your initial confusion about LCWRA being added and then deducted is because there are two different things called LCWRA on your statement.
    Typical DWP way to confuse people.

    The LCWRA that is added is the amount for 'UC LCWRA'.
    The LCWRA that is deducted is 'ESA Standard Rate plus ESA LCWRA'. (They have just shortened it to fit the form/screen, if they had shortened it to ESA it would be clearer).

    There is also a slight difference to what I calculated the ESA deduction to be before.
    That is because for both ESA and CA the DWP are calculating the deduction as: Weekly Payment x 52 weeks / 12 months.
    It averages out over a year and so avoids one month a year having more deducted and your UC going down that month, which would otherwise happen.
    (That's because one month a year you will get 3 ESA payments, instead of the usual 2 ESA payments, between UC payments - it's just the way that weeks and months line up differently).

    Of course your PIP and CB ESA, and your partners CA, all still get paid as well as the UC.
    Last edited by nukecad; 18-03-21 at 17:32.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    Having checked the numbers then what you are getting for UC is correct.

    Re-doing the calculation from above to add in the Carers Allowance and UC-Carer Element, and adjusting for your new figures now with pence included.
    (I've also put it in the same order as your UC statement)

    £ 594.04 UC Standard Allowance couple over 25. (Includes covid uplift).
    £ 420.85 Housing Element. (Your figure)
    £ 162.92 Carer Element.
    £ 341.92 LCWRA.
    £1519.73 Total UC amount before deductions.

    £ 5.04 Deduction for partners earnings above the Work allowance.
    £ 492.05 Deduction for income from ESA-LCWRA. (£113.55 x 52 / 12).
    £ 291.42 Deduction for income from Carers Allowance. (£67.25 x 52 / 12).
    £ 420.85 Rent direct to landlord. (Your figure).
    £1209.36 Total adjustments to be deducted.

    £1519.73 Total UC amount before deductions.
    £1209.36 Total adjustments to be deducted.
    £ 310.37 UC payable.

    I think your initial confusion about LCWRA being added and then deducted is because there are two different things called LCWRA on your statement.
    Typical DWP way to confuse people.

    The LCWRA that is added is the amount for 'UC LCWRA'.
    The LCWRA that is deducted is 'ESA Standard Rate plus ESA LCWRA'. (They have just shortened it to fit the form/screen, if they had shortened it to ESA it would be clearer).

    There is also a slight difference to what I calculated the ESA deduction to be before.
    That is because for both ESA and CA the DWP are calculating the deduction as: Weekly Payment x 52 weeks / 12 months.
    It averages out over a year and so avoids one month a year having more deducted and your UC going down that month, which would otherwise happen.
    (That's because one month a year you will get 3 ESA payments, instead of the usual 2 ESA payments, between UC payments - it's just the way that weeks and months line up differently).

    Of course your PIP and CB ESA, and your partners CA, all still get paid as well as the UC.
    Hi Nuke
    Very respected and huge thanks for your time. Will disturb you again when I need help.

  8. #28
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Just to add for completeness - If you wanted to then you could close the CB ESA and CA claims, your money overall wouldn't change.

    There are advantages and dissadvantages of doing that though, so you may be best leaving things as they are.
    In the end it's your choice.

    The obvious advantage is that you wouldn't have to deal with CB ESA and CA anymore and your UC statement would be simpler.
    TBH though ESA and CA should not bother you other than the odd letter.

    The possible disadvantages:
    • You'd only be getting paid once a month instead of having the ESA payment fortnightly.
    • If your partner started working full time, or if your savings went up above £16k (lottery, inheritance?), the UC could/would stop whereas CB ESA would still be paid.
    • If your partner was not claiming the CA she should still qualify for the UC-Carer Element, (you just have to be a carer for 35 hrs/week), but if she closes CA now UC may think she is no longer caring and may stop paying the UC-CE until you sort it out.


    As I say I think you are best leaving things as they are, but it is an option.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

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