Covid vaccination.

[scotleag]

It's not a 'gamble,' it's more a calculated risk. This isn't something entered into lightly.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...d-dose-uk-jabs

And the commonplace suggestion that the UK is the only country pursuing this is way off beam as well. Here are the Dutch, contemplating TWENTY-FOUR weeks between jabs
https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2021/0...cine-strategy/

That's based on Oxford/AstraZeneca but other countries are prepared to extend Pfizer to at least six weeks. Denmark for certain & France, Germany & Sweden at least all considering it. Hungary is even using the Russian Sputnik vaccine which hasn't been through anywhere near the same process as Oxford/AZ or Pfizer

In short every country is having to adapt its approach as none - beyond New Zealand and Australia - have the 'luxury' of time to vaccinate twice within short intervals. Given the problems now associated with supply this pressure is only going to increase. In short, with the possible exception of the USA, you're going to have look damned hard to find any country pursuing three-weeks intervals between vaccinations.

As I said earlier the vaccination roll-out so far is one of the rare UK successes and the reason for that success is that politicians of all parties have accepted without demur the recommendations of the scientists. In the case of Oxford/AZ we have a not for profit vaccine, efficiently distributed via a publicly owned health service on the basis of need.

If anyone had told me a month ago that nearly seven million people in this country would have had a first vaccination and close to half a million of them a second I'd have reckoned they'd had too much of the Xmas sherry.

[StarBright]

I think this is another one of those we will agree to disagree

You say educated guess I say hunch, guess. The clue is in the word guess your version is that they gave more thought to it than what I'm saying they did that does not mean doing this is safe.

I watched Sir Simon Stevens answering questions yesterday. He said we are doing this because we do not have enough vaccines no country has enough vaccines. If we had enough vaccines we would give people the second one with a three week gap.

There is no medical data to say what is going to happen to people who have the second jab three months apart none in any country. That's because there hasn't been a three month gap yet between giving the first & then second jab. We are the country like you say that is ahead of the rest of the world in giving the jabs.

Through out this convo I have never said that the NHS is doing anything but a great job. Actually I haven't said they are either thinking about it but yes they are. No question about that.

That's not the problem at the moment. It's getting the vaccines into the country.

The EU are behaving terribly some country's in the EU threatening the company's that have made the vaccines that they will sue them because there is a delay in them getting the vaccines. The whole world needs to be vaccinated to help squash this down.

Nuke, I've come here & gone to write things but have stopped myself because it's bad news after bad news. It was one of those Chiropodists god situations I couldn't think of a way to write it more caring without saying it

I said to my Elderly family member that gets theirs tomorrow, just put a bar of chocolate in your bag. They are all exhausted & what a lovely way to just say thank you, a bar of chocolate, a tube of hand cream just think of how many times they have to anti bac their hands in a day.

[scotleag]

My version is that the JCVI thought long and hard before issuing its advice. It's not the sort of thing that's done lightly. Yes, production and supply is the major issue. Importation is only a POTENTIAL problem at the moment. There's a lot of Oxford/AZ production in the UK, the infrastructure for delivery is in place and enough vaccines have been ordered via a wide portfolio to vaccinate the entire country.

Ultimately though in order to protect from a pandemic you have to vaccinate the world.

[scotleag]

There are full details on reasoning behind JCVI advice here
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...jcvi-statement

[StarBright]

Scotleag, that's why I've said we should agree to disagree because you can link to anything & none of them will say giving the second jab three months apart is safe or effective in the long term. Because no one has done it so it goes back round again to the answer I gave

It's a hunch & guess

We shall see in future if we are still here what happens

[scotleag]

Yes, we'll have to agree to disagree. I remain convinced that the 12-week decision was taken on an on balance assessment rather than a hunch or a guess. If decisions of this magnitude are taken on that basis then we are all in trouble

[StarBright]

And I am convinced that the 12 week decision is no more than a guess on things they "think" & hope will happen as there is no clinical evidence of the effectiveness of the pfizer covid 19 vaccine given with a gap of three months.

There was however clinical evidence that giving the Pfizer vaccine three weeks apart gives a effectiveness of 94% about three weeks after the second jab.

But the UK screwed up that data & tossed it in the bin & so now we have no knowledge of what's going to happen next.

Edit to say: That we don't know if this is a good decision or not it could be brilliant or not such a good idea after all. We will all have to wait & see

[StarBright]

I'm just waiting on a phone conversation with a GP as to weather I can have the Pfizer jab or not. I called district nurses yesterday & I was not flagged up as being someone who carries a Epi-Pen & have allergies which to be frank is shocking as I have told them.

Elderly family member went to have their vaccine & it was the Pfizer one & was given the jab by the GP that knows me the best & one I have not been able to speak to since before covid. She said that she will be happy to talk to me about it so I called the GP's & am now booked in for a phone call with her this afternoon.

[StarBright]

Really interesting conversation. Warning a long posts sorry as I find it very hard to read long posts myself. Before I go on I will do a disclaimer:

EVERYONE WHO IS IN DOUBT ABOUT HAVING THE PFIZER VACCINE DUE TO ALLERGIES SHOULD CALL THEIR GP'S AS THIS ADVICE FROM MY GP IS FOR ME & NOT EVERYONE WILL HAVE THE SAME ALLERGIES/REACTIONS AS ME

So I asked that at the start of the Pfizer vaccine being given out it was said that if you are a epi pen carrier or have food allergies not to have the Pfizer vaccine, then that advice changed. I said I'm an epi- pen carrier who has food allergies is it safe to have the Pfizer vaccination.

Yes they have found something in the vaccine & she did say what it was but unfortunately I could not pronounce it even if I could remember what it was. I'm sorry. But she said there is nothing food related in the vaccine & said I have food allergies & I said yes & to the environment. So she said I would be fine with the vaccine. She said that she is 99.9% positive that the District nurses will have the Oxford one because they have been doing the care homes with the Oxford one because of how it needs to be stored & the Pfizer one at vaccine centres.

She also said that she would be interested to know how the district nurses are going to get on with delivering the vaccines. She also said hand on heart this GP has a heart of gold & would never talk badly of anyone but she said it's amazing how many people we have down on our books as being housebound who when offered a vaccine have found a distant relative who can bring them to the vaccination centres. She said they are finding Daughters who can bring them down she said herself I don't mean anything against them but there are so many. She said at the end of this there will be less people on their books & the district nurses books as housebound & so help can go to the people who need it most.

So somehow we got talking about how this has made a lot of people think more & differently about a lot of things including what people go through being at home all the time. I said a lot of other things have changed like today a local butchers delivered to me I payed on the phone & they delivered it today, they deliver once a week now because of Covid & people not being able to get out where they didn't offer that for people who can't come out for other reasons before covid. Hoping they will continue once people are allowed out more again.

I've got my blood tests booked I asked while I was on the phone so she said for me to call her once the results are in & she gave me the impression she wants to find out how I've got on with the District nurses giving the vaccine. I don't know when that will be yet.

And just to say for anyone who was reading about my allergy problems with wheat. I asked her, I explained what happens when I eat anything containing wheat that I've tried different wheat breads, scones, pasta & the only wheat thing that my body does not react to is warburtons crumpets strangely!. I said would it be a sensible thing as i can't go anywhere for tests to cut wheat out. She said yes for at least three months then re introduce it & see what happens. She said sometimes if you carry on you could make things worse. She said replace with a different carbohydrate.

Sorry for the length of this & please call your GP's if you are wondering if you will be able to have the Pfizer jab or not as the info given to me may be different for you & your health.

[nukecad]

For anyone interested AgeUK have published some vaccination/vaccine FAQ's:

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information...e=CON-13655044

I see that I'm in group 6, higher risk, so a while to wait yet.

Note if you are a home carer:

Priority group 6 is everyone aged 16-64 with an underlying health condition which puts them at higher risk of becoming seriously unwell, and unpaid carers.

Carers will be identified through receipt of carers allowance and by their GP. If you’re a carer but you don’t receive carers allowance, ensure that your GP surgery is aware that you’re a carer to make sure you’re invited to book a vaccination appointment at the correct time.