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Thread: Legacy ESA Change of circumstance prep

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    Legacy ESA Change of circumstance prep

    Hi folks im a newbie here just starting to get my thoughts together on what happens next in my situation and would welcome some indicators as to what im in for with a change of circumstance as soon going to be forced to move home to a different LA.

    In a nutshell ive been claiming ESA WRAG for a few years now as got poorly spine diagnosed by consultant, was asked to go to WCA prior to pandemic but obv f2f wca on hold still?? I have been living in my home for 20 years but now a time comes where i may have to move to rented flat in a different LA. I believe they call this natural migration, I was hoping it would be just a matter of claiming housing benefit but oh no UC messes everything up. In addition i dont have phone number to Give DWP and ESA claimants are not required to give DWP tel number cant afford to top up as things are tight enough on ESA as it is.

    When i tell them about my move will they transfer me to UC without much fuss or will i have to start all over again and lose WRAG till they done the WCA which no dount I will fail and have to appeal like clockwork.

    Thanks in advance a rattled disabled fella...

  2. #2
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    It's correct that unless you have the Severe Disability Premium with your ESA (or HB) then a move of house to a different Local Authority will mean making a new claim for UC to pay housing costs/rent.

    (Unless you are having to move to 'specified accommodation', which ususlly means care or supported accommodation).

    Claiming UC will then 'Naturally Migrate' any other Income Related benefits that you have into UC.

    That's not a bad thing (like it could be a few years ago) just different to what you are used to.
    In fact you will be better of on UC than you are currently on ESA and HB.

    When you get the tenancy of the new flat you make a claim for UC for the rent.
    Everything will then follow automatically.

    Natural Migration is generally fuss free these days.

    Your ESA will be migrated to UC - your WRAG status is preserved and becomes UC-LCW from the start of the UC claim.
    So there will be no jobsearching in your UC Claimant Commitment.
    If you currently get paid a WRAG element in ESA then you will be paid a LCW element in UC, from the start of the claim (But it may take a month or s
    two to be paid because ESA have to confirm it to UC on a particular form which can take time).

    The main difference is that UC is paid monthly rather than fortnightly, but to help with that change:

    Your HB for the old property will 'run on' and still be paid for 2 weeks after you claim UC.
    If you migrate to UC after 22 July 2020 then ESA will also have a 2 week run-on.
    The run-ons are paid as well as UC. (You are paid for both).

    Your current 'on hold' WCA will still be done when it can, it's exactly the same WCA for both ESA and UC, done by the same people at the same places.
    CHDA will need to be told if you have changed address before you have a F2F, so that they can make an appointment nearer to your new address.


    Are you moving to a private rental, or social housing (council flat)?
    If you could tell us how much ESA you currently get, and any other benfits you get, then we can do a comparision with what you should get with UC.
    Also see here for a quick comparison of ESA and UC for a single over 25:
    https://www.youreable.com/forums/sho...l=1#post137494
    Last edited by nukecad; 03-07-20 at 10:39.
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    Thanks nukecad a really nice answer and very useful especially the 22nd July nugget Allow me to clarify some matters if I may.

    Currently living in my own home alone as owner occupier, spent plenty of years struggling to pay mortgage when working and then when claimed ESA also got SMI benefit until it changed to the loan then accepted the SMI Loan but it only pays about 60% of the interest only due to remortage some years ago so made the rest up with my income till recently which is another reason i want to rent now as things are very tight. Very little equity in my home as legal matters have consumed that in fee's so its lost and soon eviction looms just a matter of time, already accepted im moving on just a matter of time now but should be much better off financially when moved.

    I am moving into a housing association flat, already signed n sealed was amazed how quickly i got that flat i have track record of thinking way ahead as you can see lol but a plan is a plan and avoids to much pain from nasty surprises! Possibly a bit to quick tbh as just dragging my feet moving now because of worries of migrating, then the pandemic and its a tiny place compared to my own home which is not a mansion but does have second bedroom for my child to stay over, unlike the flat which is one bed but cheap as chips and much more friendly to my health and condition at present. Stopped making a contribution to my mortgage earlier in year to pay that flats rent from my meagre income whilst i get moved in proper but it gives peace of mind with eviction looming to have the flat ready im busy getting it ready to move in (possession proceedings commenced prior to pandemic but got adjourned accordingly expecting eviction in few months).

    Im not sure on the best way to claim U.C is it just a matter of sending DWP a letter telling them I have moved so please end the SMI Loan and claim rent instead? I cant afford a phone or internet, i'm using a free hotspot right now to write this on my laptop and thats how i manage to get on line now and again, its ok tho but I would like to move over without the need for giving DWP phone number or email as cannot guarantee a connection due to cost and refuse to be bashed over the head about that as personal allowance is money paid as the law says its money paid as its what is needed to live on and not to help pay the admin costs of the DWP!! and of course the letterbox in my front door is free to receive letters and totally guaranteed to function every day of the year!
    I'm not aware of any law requiring a citizen to have a telephone number or email address in order to claim benefits but read about JSA claimants having to give it, they seem to try and make it seem that way. Im actually forbidden from taking the mark for personal reasons and prepared to take that to the highest court in the land / Judicial review or die stinking in the gutter lol which i hope it wont come to but getting ahead of myself again...

    I know ESA claimants are not obliged to give DWP a telephone number or email and I want to keep it that way really so i'm thinking of sending the letter and waiting for a response which would probably just be stopped money till i phone DWP up (its how they seem to operate) or just turning up at the JC in the new LA and introducing myself. eeek, i hate how U.C works and never even claimed it before i feel old fashioned and quite happy to be that way i dont want branding and tracking in real time.

    I am also moving to be closer to my elderley parents one of which i get carers allowance for so I think my income works out as ESA + WRAG - Carers Allowance + Carers premium. I get £67 a week carers allowance and something like £175 a fortnight ESA + C premium and im paying the rent on the new flat presently using the carers allowance and a tenner a week from my esa which is leaving me a bit stretched especially after i pay some child maintenance at end of each month but when i move it will come good fingers crossed and i hope U.C will work out you probably can tell im not keen.... Then theres the Saga about how Gov decided to disciminate against legacy claimants regarding the extra pandemic payments, way to much stick to get folks onto U.C, am I being overly cynical?
    Last edited by Peddled; 03-07-20 at 11:35.

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    Thanks for the link you seem to know your stuff sorry for my long reply above. It seems my question boils down to this:

    How does a IR ESA WRAG claimant claim UC-Housing Element in the new area and is that possible without providing telephone number, email or having regular reliable internet connection... As I said i would prefer to send DWP something in writing, second best would be a visit to the new LA JC+ Using phones makes me anxious always has, you can see how much i type on here imagine that in speak lol.

    Thanks in advance.

    EDIT:

    Universal Credit helpline
    Telephone: 0800 328 5644

    After 22nd July when im ready to finally change my circumstances and move to new flat shall i just call that number and tell em i need to claim UC-Housing Element? as i said earlier i dont have any digital address to give DWP i will be calling from a phone box if can find one that still works as out of credit PAYG mobiles dont allow free calls to 0800 numbers?????
    Last edited by Peddled; 03-07-20 at 12:40.

  5. #5
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    As the new property is a 1-bed HA flat then UC-Housing Element should pay the full rent.

    UC claims are (*almost always) made online, and you will need access to your online journal, so you will need to sort out at least some internet access.
    They/you manage things through that account not email.
    You will (*almost always) need an email address though. (If you have an Android phone then you may already have a *****@gmail email address).
    https://www.gov.uk/universal-credit/...d-d9f2c796c750

    (*Almost always - because it is recognised that some people will not be able to manage it online, for whatever reason).

    Citizens Advice run the official 'Help to Claim' scheme if you have problems with any aspect of claiming UC, including no phone/no internet access/no email:
    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/ab...help-to-claim/


    i hate how U.C works and never even claimed it before
    If you have never claimed UC then how do you even know how it works, or what it's like?
    I suspect that you have been reading too many of the scare stories, most of which are made up or based on out of date information.
    Last edited by nukecad; 03-07-20 at 13:31.
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    Regarding the full rent paid that was my objective taking a small cheap flat because paying rent/mortgage out of my income is causing extreme distress so i need to end that soon to get rent paid in full, downsize is a must. I also need new clothes for a start and been big man charity shops are no good even if they where open at this time.

    Regarding phones n email, i have a basic phone only for social, domestic and pleasure use cant afford to top up often so that number is not for Government to beat me over the head with, i dont give it out because I dont have to on ESA unless ordered to by a court of law or Government make new law but as slavery is illegal they wouldn't and couldnt do that so they engineer consent, thats what U.C to me appears to be all about which is why im highly prejudice as you suspect lol. Dont get me wrong, I like the idea of having benefits all in one place and Gov cutting costs accordingly but they bolted on this discriminatory digital portal requirement this is the bit i find repulsive because letterbox is free but internet is not, who pays as there is no allowance for that cost is there unlike MP's who get expenses for that kind of thing, it must really irk JSA claimants who I believe are required to give a number and fund a phone for job seeking out of there personal allowance, clearly a breach of the law regarding the reasons benefit is paid in first place.


    I value my privacy so I dont allow any corporation like Microsoft, Alphabet or Apple to snoop on my business so i dont use devices that have there operating system, i'm a linux fan for that reason all the software i use is open source my laptop is currently running Mint which is a flavour of Ubuntu its nice and nothing snooping on me or bugging to upgrade or purchase things lol all free and open source. As already said I would rather be stinking half dead in a gutter than be forced to share my data like that its digital bondage of which i cannot entertain for my personal reasons which I believe is a philosophical argument that has plenty of merit in the eyes of the law, maybe i will have to test it hope not but prepared none the less. I get told i have anger issues by DWP bods merely for declining the offers of digital bondage, I am thankful for the welfare state but something is not right with U.C as explained we not far away from mark of the beast territory where buying and selling is impossible with the mark (chip) and this violates my religious beliefs for those who take the mark are denied entry into heaven..?

    Thanks for the info, I feel better prepared now as you can i have lots on my mind thanks for reading. I'm going to pursue the U.C claim without email but Citizens Advice are not impartial they receive Gov funding this looks like its going to be v stressful. I dont have email to give DWP of course i have email its 2020 lol, the reason i ant giving it to DWP is i cant afford internet so cant guarantee i can access the inbox and refuse to be penalised for that when DWP offer no "communications allowance" (letterbox is free) and expect claimants on low income to fund the cost of digital admin, its not on and if I have to I will take it all the way to the highest court in the land for all of our benefit. Then if i find myself stinking in a gutter i will be happy that i did my best and I know heaven awaits!

    DWP know me i havent lost any appeals yet the last one HMCTS wrote to DWP and asked them to stop messing about as DWP trying to tell me and HMCTS i had no good reason to not attend WCA when i didnt receive the invite letter in the post so couldnt have known about it and DWP reply to the MR was mehhh system overload, cant compute, computer says no. etc. They rowed back pretty quick after HMCTS wrote to them asking what was going on but they caused me a lot of agro with that maladministration it cancelled everything except CA which about kept my head above water and when they changed the decision after the HMCTS letter DWP did not reinstate SMI loan or CTS though they stopped it its on them to fix not me and thats what i tell the LA every time they ask me. Still waiting for a response to that maladmin claim to. trying to contact DWP I usually find myself in agony because of my poorly spine trapped in a phone box on hold for an hour waiting to get through to speak with DWP and hen i do get through they say "yeah its all on our screen dont know what/ why we havent actioned it" DWP are beyond inept they play games and expect claimants to phone up as well as write, they wont budge unless you give them a good kick up the ass very hostile Gov agency indeed.

    Gov need to address the cost of telecommunications and internet for claimants because my understanding is the personal allowance is paid because its money the law says we need to live on, internet and phones are a luxury item in my view as i can live without and it appears the DWP pass the cost of admin onto claimants who pay and end up needing food bank charity, what a con! Engineered consent see. They say well you have a phone anyway, yeah a basic one and its min £10 month to top up and for email internet to use the data a smart phones cost money so where is the smart device bank i cant find it only the food bank... £10 a month is a lot to a person on benefits, i dont drink or smoke or gamble i make my own bread and cook things from scratch. Ive never been poorer but never been healthier.

    Ramble ends. In this post is the skeleton argument somewhere i have to end now as getting nasty looks from the mcdonalds staff only bought one coffee been here to long.
    Last edited by Peddled; 03-07-20 at 16:46.

  7. #7
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    There is NO requirement to have a (mobile) phone or an email address to claim UC.
    They will ask for them, because it makes thing easier both for you and them, but it is NOT mandatory to provide them.

    See the DWP reply to this Freedom of information request:
    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...7%20reply.pdf?

    Jobcentres can even buy people a (basic) smartphone to access their UC journal, if they don't already have one.
    The use the 'Flexible Support Fund' for this.
    https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/...d/13529/#63191

    As you seem to already have a smartphone? then have a look round for a cheaper PAYG deal, one that includes data.

    This £10 a month PAYG EE one isn't bad, - if you phone isn't 'locked' to a network and so you can put an EE sim in your phone.
    And it currently includes 8GB of data a month for 3 months, then goes back to 4GB after 3 3 months.
    https://shop.ee.co.uk/price-plans/free-sim

    If you can use a Vodaphone sim, and can commit to at least £6 a month, every month, for 12 months, then these aren't bad.
    https://www.vodafone.co.uk/shop/bund...dcaa572410cf3e


    2 GB a month should be fine for light use, 4GB a month should be enough for general browsing, forums, etc. - as long as you are not watching videos or playing online games.
    If you know how to 'tether' a phone to your laptop (use the phone as a mobile router) then you can use that data on the laptop.
    I sometimes have to tether at home and tend to use about 4 GB a month of my phone data when doing that.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

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    Thanks for the decent reply i know to most i sound like a nutter and its good to know im not wrong regarding no requirements to have digital id when claiming ESA and its U.C equivelant. I do have a basic phone only to stay in touch with fam but often have no credit and not willing to spend scarce money on that luxury i always hear its only a tenner a month to top up, if its that cheap why doesnt Gov legislate to provide a digital comms allowance of a tenner a month beecause that tenner means everything, it means not having to rely on food banks for instance.

    Anyhow im going to attempt to claim housing bit of U.C on the phone and migrate over without giving email or phone number after finding the info below and you confirming it thanks a lot mate was getting stressed as you might tell lol. I do what the law requires and nothing more this is how MP's operate and how DWP work so its my policy as well.


    ------------------------------


    Universal Credit helpline
    Contact the Universal Credit helpline if:

    you cannot use digital services at all, this might be due to disability or your circumstances


    Universal Credit helpline
    Telephone: 0800 328 5644


    https://www.gov.uk/universal-credit/...d-d9f2c796c750

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    Hi guys so im sat here in my new home the new single bed flat which I am grateful for life has changed a little for the better i think and I am now claiming UC getting the rent paid but puzzled over my IR legacy ESA migration and really need to sort it out because i dont think they have moved my ESA WRAG claim over yet as per regulation 19 and its getting on for 3 months, or maybe they have and i dont understand the calculations which is highly likely so I am reaching out for help please.... and ofcourse the £20 uplift has ended so when they take that out next month im not looking good income wise.....

    To confirm I claimed UC in person at the JC+ because when phoned from a payphone that was no easy to locate (which took a bit of working up to do) the Serco employee told me that unless I gave a phone number then they couldn't progress the claim and that was that! A bit miffed i put the handset of the payphone down which is the only working payphone I could find in a 8 mile radius that actually quiet coincidentally is directly opposite the JC+!!!.

    So anyway the staff in the JC+ got my U.C claim going the next day when i returned at the given time slot using the JC+ "in house" email n phone as i cant use digital services hen it comes to Govt things and i have some passwords to use for verification if i need to ring up UC line which i struggle with but they cant hear it its all about apps n smart phones... Posting this from an actual pc has taken me a few weeks to work up to :-(

    Ive had plenty of shenanigans from the DWP over the last decade trying terminate my legacy ESA WRAG claim any which way they can with the latest attempt being the very day i was sat in the JC claiming U.C (Natural migration). The DWP staffer looked up from the monitor and said there is a problem raised TODAY with your ESA claim, TODAY of all days PMSL. Yeah, how convenient said I.... You seem to have failed to attend a prior WCA last week actually which has been raised today in our system, news to me i replied but bear in mind i telephoned the DWP the day before and alerted them of my need to claim UC due to a change of Circumstance but was told i couldnt claim on the phone without giving a phone number. Im not overly skeptical in general but i think the DWP are wicked and hostile for the most part and do all kinds of things to make our lives miserable if they can and some of them i'm sure enjoy doing so.

    So i left the JC+ having setup my U.C claim, i did get asked for a fit note but said i dont need one as per Reg 19 but they said its ok your Carers allowance claim means we dont need one today.... Obv asked for the advance which wasnt indicated at all but they sorted that out very quickly.

    I did receive the letter about the problem with my ESA claim a week or two later and gave my reasons as requested which where accepted by the decision maker thankfully so ESA claim in tact for natural migration n reg 19 etc etc..... Following that i received a letter of notice of a phone assessment and the next day a notice of cancellation since they must have quickly realised i dont own or operate a phone.... And thats the last letter from the DWP i received well over a month ago easily now and no change in UC money coming in so where is my ESA gone to??....

    So sorry to go on but i confirm my U.C claim day is 26th and i get carers allowance paid every monday for looking after my relative and some U.C money on 2nd usually but it barely covers the rent which is £78 weekly so have to pay £390 a month for 5 weeks the way the months seem to work out, i prefer to keep ahead on that roof over my head as a priority as got little confidence in DWP or Govt at this stage. This amount of UC paid so far seems low so I list what i have received below in the hope a helpful sole here can fathom it out with a super computer....

    Weekly CA paid every monday = £67.60

    Date claim for U.C initiated 23/7/21, assessment period starts 26th?

    29/7/21 - £891.36 - UC advance repaid ovr 18 mnths.

    13/8/21 - £164.40 - Last ESA Legacy payment (letter came from DWP after starting the UC claim advising i may need to claim UC as IR esa now ended "facepalm")

    2/9/21 - £541.99 -UC
    1/10/21 - £541.99 -UC

    So as you can see after i pay rent monthly of £390 from UC it leaves £151.99 for the month (35 wkly) with weekly carers allowance added thats £102.67 weekly is that right as it is way less than before i claimed UC and theres the £20 weekly uplift coming off that next month which means im looking at surviving on carers allowance alone>>?



    Oh no am i paying to much rent to my housing association?

    Rent £78 weekly - 4 free weeks annually = £3744 annually >>> = £312 monthly...? ahhh, i dont know flying blind, no law says you need a phone or email to claim UC but what does the law say about being kept fully informed in order to make managing a budget possible!! U.C and digital gateways are hostile as f they suck.
    Last edited by Peddled; 07-10-21 at 13:13.

  10. #10
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    There are a few possible complications there.

    Firstly I note that you had ESA WRAG, but can't find above when you first claimed it which can make a difference.
    If you first claimed after April 2017 then there is no extra money for ESA WRAG, and although the WRAG becomes UC-LCW under reg 19 there is still no extra money for it.

    So can you tell us when you first claimed ESA, or exactly how much ESA you were getting paid before you claimed UC? (We can work it out from there).

    Secondly you say that you are getting Carers Allowance -
    The money you get paid for CA is deducted £ for £ from your UC payments, which is why there doesn't seem much UC left after paying your rent.

    Does your UC contain a Carer Element? (It should do if you claim CA).
    (In UC you cannot have a Carer Element and a Limited Capability Element paid at the same time, they only pay whichever is the highest of the two, more about that when I know just what your current situation is).

    Please answer the two questions above, yes I understand it may take a while for your reply.
    In the meantime when I get time I'll see if I can make any sense of the numbers that you gave.

    Don't worry too much about the rent amounts.
    It always gets complicated when the HA wants rent weekly but UC pays it monthly, but it evens itself out over the year. (At least it should do as long as you stay living there).
    You may also be paying a bit extra at the moment because HA's want rent in advance but benefits pay in arrears, so the HA want a bit extra to 'catch up' those arrears.
    I'm in a similar situation having just moved a few months ago and am paying an extra £5+ a week above the rent to 'catch up'.

    On the practical side
    1- You seem to be struggling to maintain your UC claim online, you seem to have access to a computer but afraid to use it? Is there someone who could help you?

    2- Have you though about asking your HA to set up Managed Payments To Landlord from UC?
    That way the rent would go to them directly from the DWP, one less thing for you to deal with each week.
    (Plus if they can see it's coming from the DWP they get less 'antsy' about the mismatches in weekly/monthly because they know it will even out over the year).
    If you are in Social Housing that's much easier to set up than if you have a private landlord.

    3- If you can bring yourself to consult a local welfare advisor that is always a good step.
    They can explain what is currently happening with your UC/CA (and maybe help you with a few things online), advise on anything else you could be getting (there may be some local help we don't know about), and get you on your feet for the future in your new flat.
    You can find local advisors by putting your postcode in here: https://advicelocal.uk/find-an-adviser
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

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