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Thread: Managed Migration Pilot (or Not?)

  1. #1
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Managed Migration Pilot (or Not?)

    Has anyone noticed that it's almost time for the Pilot of Managed Migration to UC to start in Harrogate?
    I believe the target is now the 17th of July.

    But the legislation to allow this to start has not yet been debated and passed by parliment.

    With all that's going on with leadership contests, and Brexit, then it looks as if this legislation is not going to be passed anytime soon, it's not even on the timetable to be debated in parliament in July.

    So as things stand then the MM Pilot will not be able to start on time, at least not legally.

    Perhaps a bigger issue is that they are still tying the backpayment, and ongoing 'transitional payments', for those who lost the SDP due to Natural Migration to this legislation.
    (Indeed they tried last month to use that as a 'ransom demand' to get the legislation passed without proper scrutiny: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...abled-14977925 ).

    There is no real reason why they could not split those payments out from the Managed Migration legislation they are nothing to do with Managed Migration, in fact they could have easily made it part of the legislation that stopped those with SDP Naturally Migrating. (But they didn't).

    So if you lost your SDP due to Natural Migration you are going to have to wait even longer to get what you are owed and your UC payments increased.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Apparently (according to the DWP) the delay to the Managed Migration Pilot is all the fault of High Court rulings about the SDP in May. - Nothing to do with the proposed legislation being flawed then? (or with Brexit and the leadership contest taking up all the parliamentary time).

    https://www.parliament.uk/business/p...06-26/HL16705/
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    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Harrogate Advertiser are reporting that the DWP have told them that they are still planning to start the Managed Migration Pilot this month, despite the fact that the legislation is not in place to do this.

    https://www.harrogateadvertiser.co.u...lout-1-9857056
    The DWP insists Harrogate’s role as a pilot area for the next phase of the Government’s controversial Universal Credit scheme will still happen this month even though the regulations have not been passed in Parliament.’
    .
    .

    Previous reports put the starting date at July 1 but this has not happened.

    But, despite claims that Parliament’s current focus on Brexit and the Tory leadership election means it could be months before the necessary regulations are passed, a spokesperson for the Department for Work and Pensions said plans were still going ahead to introduce the pilot in July.
    The only way I can see them being able to do that is to ask people to 'volunteer' to Naturally Migrate to UC.
    So not a pilot of Managed Migration.

    Without the legal framework in place for Managed Migration to start they can't do it, so it could only be Natural Migration - possibly with a few extras like Transitional Protection/Addition (but possibly not).

    The problem there is that any TP, etc. that they do promise/give would have no legal standing until the legislation is passed.
    So anyone who did volunteer now would have no legal right to TA.
    They would probably be paid TA but wouldn't be legally entitled to it, which could cause problems in future. Would you risk it?

    The only situation where it would possibly make sense for anyone on ESA to volunteer to Migrate to UC would be if they have Support Group with EDP only (no SDP), that's the only case where you would get more money on UC than you do for ESA.
    Last edited by nukecad; 16-07-19 at 15:02.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    In an interesting development this legislation has been quietly enacted last week. (Just days before Parliament goes into recess).
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2019/1135/made

    It brings into force (from the Welfare Reform Act 2012) the outstanding powers needed to abolish legacy benefits, and to require people to move to UC when told to.
    In other words Managed Migration.

    But it doesn't bring into force any of the new Managed Migration legisaltion regarding Transitional Protection, repaying those who lost out through Natural Migration, or anything else.

    This would seem to be a potentially dangerous step; However it may not be as bad as it first seems.
    As it stands they can now tell people that their old benefits are ending and they have to claim UC, but there is no law to make them give any Transitional Protection.

    I'm not entirely sure of the implication of that for those with Working Tax Credits, or Child Tax Credits.
    But Housing Benefit and UC Housing Element work off the same rules and pay the same amounts, so no one should lose out there.
    With ESA you will be the same or better off when migrating to UC, unless you have SDP - and SDP is still blocked from migration nothing in what was enacted last week changes that.
    The same would apply to JSA and Income Support as it does for ESA.


    So whilst technically they have met the 19th July target to start the Managed Migration Pilot, they still don't have the legislation in place to do it properly/fully.
    A take on this from the W&P select committee:
    https://www.parliament.uk/business/c...omments-17-19/
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    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Amber Rudd annnounced last night that their Second attempt at the Managed Migration regulations have now been scrapped; because they can't get them through parliament.

    Instead they will be making a set of "negative procedure regulations".
    That means that the regulations are made with no approval by parliament needed. Parliament can theoretically annul them within a certain period, that almost never happens. (But this may be one of those rare case when it does?).

    From what she said in the statement then I think that has already been done last night, or is being done today.

    She also said that following the High Court ruling those who have already lost SDP under Natural Migration will now get more than the old draft regs proposed, up to a maximum of £405 a month.
    It's not clear just what that will mean in practice, 'up to' is pretty meaningless by itself, we'll have to wait to see the new regulations.
    She also avoided commiting that how they will be working out payments/backpayments will be made public.
    (When asked about it she said she would write to the MP who asked).

    They will start 'considering' individual cases for these payments/backpayments as from 24th July (tomorrow).

    The block on those with SDP migrating to UC will remain in place until 2021. (She doesn't say just when in 2021).
    She then says that after 2021 those with SDP will move to UC by Natural Migration - I think thats a mistake and she meant Managed Migration.
    (Unless that's a new policy and those with SDP will not be managed migrated? Again we'll have to see what the new regs say).

    I notice that their "test-and-learn" rhetoric seems to have been renamed to "listen-and-adapt".

    Further down the debate she also admits that for the 10,000 cases they want to do in the pilot there are not enough IR legacy benefit claimants in Harrogate, so they will probably have to expand the pilot to other areas.


    Here's the Hansard transcript of the statement:
    https://hansard.parliament.uk/common...nagedMigration
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  6. #6
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Here are the new regulations which have been forced through:
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2019/1152/made

    They are already under scrutiny and problems are being found.

    Firstly the compensation for those who lost SDP due to Natural Migration is still not the full amount that they would have got if the Transitional Provisions had been in place.
    I've not worked it out myself yet but it seems that the EDP that was also payable if you had SDP has been totally ignored again.

    It's already been suggested that because the High Court ruling made the disparity between Natural and Managed Migration ilegal then because there is still a disparity it is still ilegal.
    Expect to see that one back at the High Court pretty quickly.

    EDIT- I said earlier that this new legislation removed the UC migration block for those who had SDP with Housing Benefit only, I now believe that was an error.
    From a second reading that migration block still exists, but what the new legislation has done is (seemingly) deny compensation for those who had/have SDP with Housing Benefit only and lost, or still lose, it during Natural Migration.

    I'm sure that there will be more problems to be found.

    And as somebody on rightsnet rightly pointed out - Isn't it convenient that this was done the day before the media is flooded with Boris being elected PM, so there won't be any room to criticise these measures in the press until MPs are safetly off on their summer jollies.
    Last edited by nukecad; 26-07-19 at 08:49.
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    New Member Shawn's Avatar
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    Harrogate! One of the nicest places to live in Britain. No doubt one of the most affluent. If anyone can make 6 weeks with no income easily it will be here. Apologies to anyone not able to and living there but you can see what they have done.

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    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    Firstly the compensation for those who lost SDP due to Natural Migration is still not the full amount that they would have got if the Transitional Provisions had been in place.
    I've not worked it out myself yet but it seems that the EDP that was also payable if you had SDP has been totally ignored again.
    The compensation figures are in the legislation at Appendix 2.

    I've only had a quick glance, I'll try to do a more in depth post on them tomorrow.

    One thing to note is that any lump sum backpayment will be dissregarded as savings/capital for the life of your UC claim.
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    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    For those who lost SDP due to Natural Migration the "transitional SDP amount" (that's what they are calling it) given in the new legislation are as follows:

    Single claimant:
    1. £120 If you have LCWRA in your UC.
    2. £285 If you don't have LCWRA in your UC.

    Joint claimants:
    1. £405 if you had Higher SDP (both entitled) and no person has has become a carer for either of you since you claimed UC.
    2. £120 If (1) doesn't apply and you have LCWRA in your UC.
    3. £285 If (1) doesn't apply and you don't have LCWRA in your UC.

    The above amounts are conditional on no one having become a carer for you since you claimed UC.

    There is also a clause about if you didn't have LCWRA after migration but were awarded it later.

    These figures are still woefully short of what has been lost during Natural Migration (and what will be protected/given during Managed Migration).

    In the simplest case of a single claimant with SDP they will have lost £190.28 a month, the TA in the legislation is £120.
    Which still leaves a shortfall of £70.28.
    That shortfall is roughly the EDP, which has been left out entirely and is not being compensated for.
    (But the gov. can trumpet that they are compensating for the SDP and all is well).

    As said before this does not comply with last years High Court ruling which said that the disparity in TA/TP between Natural Migration and Managed Migration is unlawful, (ie. the protection should be the same for both), so expect it to be back in court again.
    Last edited by nukecad; 26-07-19 at 08:12.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    As said before this does not comply with last years High Court ruling which said that the disparity in TA/TP between Natural Migration and Managed Migration is unlawful, (ie. the protection should be the same for both), so expect it to be back in court again.
    It's already in hand, I almost forgot about this:
    https://www.youreable.com/forums/sho...igration-to-UC

    You may want to contact them if you are affected by the loss of SDP/EDS during Natural Migration.

    PS. I have seen a report on rightsnet that SDP backpayments have already been made into some bank accounts.
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