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Thread: Opted out of GP care.

  1. #1
    doberg
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    Opted out of GP care.

    Just a quickie, more for advance info than anything else.

    If someone opted out of all care, except repeat prescriptions, from the GP and only attended the walk in centre or A&E, what problems would it cause when claiming AA?

    Also, a psychologist has made a referral to a 'memory clinic' - is it compulsory to attend? (dad - suspected early onset of demtia but in denial)

    Mum & dad are getting more awkward and refusing to be involved with current and future care for themselves.

    Social Services have been involved but dad is now refusing to co-operate so last week they have walked away as they can't force them to take the help.

    Other than the health problems that could arise, I am trying to get AA for mum but so far the DWP have refused it on the basis that the GP states that as far as he is concerned there are no care needs, and are now waiting for the appeal hearing.

    My problem is going to be to try and convince the appeal board that mum (and dad) do have care needs but due to non co-operation, there is no one that can confirm them.

    Hope all of that makes sense.
    Last edited by doberg; 21-10-12 at 20:14.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by doberg View Post
    Just a quickie, more for advance info than anything else.

    If someone opted out of all care, except repeat prescriptions, from the GP and only attended the walk in centre or A&E, what problems would it cause when claiming AA?

    Also, a psychologist has made a referral to a 'memory clinic' - is it compulsory to attend? (dad - suspected early onset of demtia but in denial)

    Mum & dad are getting more awkward and refusing to be involved with current and future care for themselves.

    Social Services have been involved but dad is now refusing to co-operate so last week they have walked away as they can't force them to take the help.

    Other than the health problems that could arise, I am trying to get AA for mum but so far the DWP have refused it on the basis that the GP states that as far as he is concerned there are no care needs, and are now waiting for the appeal hearing.

    My problem is going to be to try and convince the appeal board that mum (and dad) do have care needs but due to non co-operation, there is no one that can confirm them.

    Hope all of that makes sense.
    I'm a little confused. You say your parents are non cooperative but your mother has made an application for AA?
    The DWP, but now the Tribunal will need evidence that there are care needs but with no GP etc that would be hard enough but the Tribunal make provision for this in certain circumstances BUT if your parents are refusing to acknowledge this situation I think your chances are nil. Are they even likely to attend the hearing given what you have said.

  3. #3
    doberg
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by wobble1 View Post
    I'm a little confused. You say your parents are non cooperative but your mother has made an application for AA?
    The DWP, but now the Tribunal will need evidence that there are care needs but with no GP etc that would be hard enough but the Tribunal make provision for this in certain circumstances BUT if your parents are refusing to acknowledge this situation I think your chances are nil. Are they even likely to attend the hearing given what you have said.
    Yes I made the claim for mum.

    They have given up on their GP as they will not (letter to Social Services re mum from them says that Mrs *** says this, Mrs **** says that - they refuse to state or confirm that mum has any problems whatsoever with care needs - but does have the conditions - this letter has gone to the DWP)

    Basically the GP is refusing to confirm any home problems that mum has given the conditions she has - getting very close to saying mum is a liar!

    Mum discontinued with the physio as she was worse after three visits than before she went.

    It's as simple as saying that as far as everyone is concerned, GP, Physio, Social Services & the DWP no one is willing to agree with mum when she tells them what problems she is having.

    Even Social Services are in a quandry, do they believe mum or do they believe the GP who will only repeat what he is told ........

    At the end of the day, mum sees the GP and everyone else as being 'against' her.
    I have to admit that I am going in circles with it all. Mum does acknowledge what is wrong with her and she expects everyone else to listen to her and believe her. It is most upsetting when she is told that she doesn't really have any needs when she, my dad and myself see and know otherwise.

    Hence, the 'kicking into touch' of everyone and just relying on A&E & the walk in centre. We all see it as a waste of time talking to the GP if at the end of the day he is not willing to back her up to Social Services or the DWP.

    Yes, I can get mum to the Tribunal, but to honest I dread to think what abuse will come out of her mouth if she feels that they too don't believe her!

  4. #4
    davewhit
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    Quote Originally Posted by doberg View Post
    Yes I made the claim for mum.

    They have given up on their GP as they will not (letter to Social Services re mum from them says that Mrs *** says this, Mrs **** says that - they refuse to state or confirm that mum has any problems whatsoever with care needs - but does have the conditions - this letter has gone to the DWP)

    Basically the GP is refusing to confirm any home problems that mum has given the conditions she has - getting very close to saying mum is a liar!

    Mum discontinued with the physio as she was worse after three visits than before she went.

    It's as simple as saying that as far as everyone is concerned, GP, Physio, Social Services & the DWP no one is willing to agree with mum when she tells them what problems she is having.

    Even Social Services are in a quandry, do they believe mum or do they believe the GP who will only repeat what he is told ........

    At the end of the day, mum sees the GP and everyone else as being 'against' her.
    I have to admit that I am going in circles with it all. Mum does acknowledge what is wrong with her and she expects everyone else to listen to her and believe her. It is most upsetting when she is told that she doesn't really have any needs when she, my dad and myself see and know otherwise.

    Hence, the 'kicking into touch' of everyone and just relying on A&E & the walk in centre. We all see it as a waste of time talking to the GP if at the end of the day he is not willing to back her up to Social Services or the DWP.

    Yes, I can get mum to the Tribunal, but to honest I dread to think what abuse will come out of her mouth if she feels that they too don't believe her!
    your GP is not calling your mum a liar ..IF your mum has (as you say) stopped dealing with go other than repeat medication .....

    The GP cant say anything

    the real problem IMO is its hard enough to get AA DLA ESA when everyone is pulling in the same direction in this case your mum and dad dont seem to be helping so no chance

    also why did DWP allow you to apply for AA for one of your parents ? who gave you permission ? I thought that would be down to your mum or dad ?

  5. #5
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    I see now, you helped her fill in the form but not made a claim on her behalf.
    Is there a possibilty of changing GP? If you do attend A&E you will probably have a long wait but any treatment etc will be on computer and you can get this information from the LHA, possibly may involve a fee.
    I'm not sure, from what you say, if there's a solution to this, you can take a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

  6. #6
    doberg
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by davewhit View Post
    your GP is not calling your mum a liar ..IF your mum has (as you say) stopped dealing with go other than repeat medication .....

    The GP cant say anything

    the real problem IMO is its hard enough to get AA DLA ESA when everyone is pulling in the same direction in this case your mum and dad dont seem to be helping so no chance

    also why did DWP allow you to apply for AA for one of your parents ? who gave you permission ? I thought that would be down to your mum or dad ?
    Well if the GP isn't prepared to accept at face value (which they aren't) what mum says are the problems at home - what else would you call it?
    On top of that the consultant physio actually told her to her face that he didn't believe that there was a problem and that the pain she was in was in her head. Only when I pushed it with him did he back down and offer a MRI. He even said 'when the results come back and they confirm that there is nothing wrong with you, will you accept that the pain isn't real?'

    If that is the answer then we will all have to accept it. A bit unfair but that's how it goes I suppose. Better to have no GP than a GP that thinks that mum is play acting! Not being awarded AA is of no real consequence. I only completed the forms for her as I thought that it was her entitlement (based on the on line test) and it was important that her problems be accepted as being real and not imaginary.

    I helped fill out the claim form. Mum can't even hold a pen never mind write!
    Last edited by doberg; 22-10-12 at 17:05.

  7. #7
    doberg
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by wobble1 View Post
    I see now, you helped her fill in the form but not made a claim on her behalf.
    Is there a possibilty of changing GP? If you do attend A&E you will probably have a long wait but any treatment etc will be on computer and you can get this information from the LHA, possibly may involve a fee.
    I'm not sure, from what you say, if there's a solution to this, you can take a horse to water but you can't make them drink.
    The only thing that we ever wanted from the GP was for him to accept that mum is having these problems with caring for herself.
    When you have a GP that thinks she is a drama queen you have no chance and no other options.

    Personally if I went to my GP and told her that I was having problems say with my periods, I certainly wouldn't be happy if I was told that it is normal and didn't bother to check me out!

    Yes A&E is generally a long wait, but I have to admit that every time I have taken mum or dad they have been very thorough and reached a conclusion. I took dad down a few weeks ago after his left leg kept on folding under him when he was walking. This same problem was reported to the GP about a year ago! They kept him in overnight and after various scans and tests concluded that he had a build up of fatty deposits in the artery. They put him on some tabs and are to get him in for an op asap. The GP had previously said that the problem was probably a bit of arthritis!!
    Last edited by doberg; 22-10-12 at 17:15.

  8. #8
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    I can quite understand how some people - especially if they are elderly and maybe not able to explain how they feel - can become very disillusioned with the NHS and all other organisations which they might see as being against them these days. And it's sad to hear that your Mum really doesn't appear to be getting the consideration she needs.
    The fact is that your parents have every right to refuse medical treatment or intervention, and the DWP should never take that into account when considering someones needs for AA. It is a human right to choose not to accept treatment.
    The problem then of course is how to make the case for AA in the understandable absence of medical evidence. Which is where the whole principal of AA - and DLA - falls apart. Because the DWP would be the first to tell you that it is the effects on day to day care needs, and not the diagnosis, which count.
    I would suggest putting together a submission yourself to the Tribunal, explaining how you see your Mums' need for care. Explain how difficult she can be and why she won't accept treatment etc. What has to be done for her - including dealing with correspondence and writing. Get her to sign a brief letter giving you the authority to deal with the appeal on her behalf, and send both to the Tribunal Service before the hearing date. Then the Tribunal should have a much better idea of the problems and you only have to worry about getting your Mum there.

  9. #9
    doberg
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Carneucopia View Post
    I can quite understand how some people - especially if they are elderly and maybe not able to explain how they feel - can become very disillusioned with the NHS and all other organisations which they might see as being against them these days. And it's sad to hear that your Mum really doesn't appear to be getting the consideration she needs.
    The fact is that your parents have every right to refuse medical treatment or intervention, and the DWP should never take that into account when considering someones needs for AA. It is a human right to choose not to accept treatment.
    The problem then of course is how to make the case for AA in the understandable absence of medical evidence. Which is where the whole principal of AA - and DLA - falls apart. Because the DWP would be the first to tell you that it is the effects on day to day care needs, and not the diagnosis, which count.
    I would suggest putting together a submission yourself to the Tribunal, explaining how you see your Mums' need for care. Explain how difficult she can be and why she won't accept treatment etc. What has to be done for her - including dealing with correspondence and writing. Get her to sign a brief letter giving you the authority to deal with the appeal on her behalf, and send both to the Tribunal Service before the hearing date. Then the Tribunal should have a much better idea of the problems and you only have to worry about getting your Mum there.
    Thanks for that. I have already done most of that via a letter I sent to the DWP (as her carer) explaining all of the above problems. The DWP disregarded it. Then following a phone call to the DWP they insisted that both DLA & AA were 'self assessed' benefits, but that they require a good level of evidence as well to back up what I and mum have said.

    Personally I can understand why they say that as anybody can say anything especially where money is involved. If the DWP were to award these benefits soley on the applicant's say so backed up by another member of the family saying she is telling the truth, the whole country would be given AA/DLA!!

    I can't see a way forward. There is no one that can provide the evidence and confirmation of needs my mum has.

    I am right back at where I was in April this year when her previous AA claim came before the Tribunal. They refused the claim soley on the basis, taken from the Tribunal Decision Notice - "if someone who has these medical problems and needs isn't obtaining medical/social intervention then the inference is that the claim is exagerated at best and fraudalent at worst".

    10 days after that decision, I helped mum complete another claim form.

  10. #10
    davewhit
    Guest
    Its possible that there inability to take help is part of the problem I would say IMO the memory clinic is the input needed at this stage the tests they carry out would rule out many problems that can even cause people not to interact with others. once things have been ruled out then things like demtia can be looked at

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