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Thread: Permitted Work 52 week time limit REMOVED for those in ESA WRAG

  1. #11
    Thanks for that information brightonbelle. I realise there is some risk in it, but I suppose it depends on whether someone feels they are capable of Permitted Work only, or if they think there's a possibility they could go beyond that in the future. That is something for people to weigh up for themselves.

    I'm trying not to worry about it, because, as I said before, they can't make you do what you can't. If it transpires I have more limitations than I'd hoped I had, then so be it. I just feel the need to try and improve my life, at the moment, so I'm going forward with it.

    Thanks for the warnings anyway. It is important for people to be aware of the potential pitfalls!

  2. #12
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    Very useful info posted here - many thanks. I am in the WRAG and been on ESA for more than 2 years due to severe depression following my divorce. Male, I'm in my early 60's now. it was devastating. I used to teach, but was put on the work programme 6 months ago by my ESA adviser and it wasn't explained that it was voluntary. I'm trying to rebuild my life and so doing some permitted work (teaching). Only work 7 hours per week at the mo but because of an occupational pension, don't think I'll get any ESA at all from now on because I'm earning. if so, can I leave the work programme because there'll be no financial sanction? To be honest, my WP advisor is a nightmare and very intense, bordering on rude.

  3. #13
    brightonbelle
    Guest
    I hope everything works out for you Izzy! doing a few hours a week would be a good tactic. enough to make that step towards improving your life, too little to be judged by.

    For anyone remotely interested in me ramblings on this thread...can I point out a few things.

    If your an existing ESA claimant in the support group you do not have to be worried.
    If your an existing ESA claimant in the WRAG. Be alert for the work programme once up and running.

    If your not yet on ESA, (because you have never claimed before, or are making a new claim)- be aware that universal credit has now started to take on disabled claimants. We have someone on this site (pau) whose going through the process. It applied only in some areas at the moment, but will expand (regardless of the fact that the UC system isn't fit for purpose). In those areas you cannot claim income based ESA, its UC only.

    http://researchbriefings.parliament....mmary/CBP-7927

    http://www.bing.com/search?q=searchi...384152EC7E0287 4th result down, universal credit and statistics pdf


    Whereas an ESA LCW claimant can get disability premiums, and permitted work of up to £120 pw that doesn't affect your benefits.........there are no disability premiums in UC, and no permitted work - but instead a work allowance of £192 pcm (£44.31pw) if you are a tenant, or £397pcm (£91.61) if a homeowner. If the work you do is more than the allowance you lose 63p for every extra pound. If no LCW then no work allowance.

    If you are applying for contribution based ESA....its the "new style ESA". UC only deals with income based benefits. See the link for info. Please take note of the terminology used. Like the current ESA, you cant reclaim if your unsuccessful unless your condition has worsened or there's a new condition. The difference being that "In most cases you won’t be able to reclaim new style ESA if you were found capable of doing some work after your Work Capability Assessment".

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-styl...port-allowance

    Whilst the things discussed above only affect new disabled claimants, we need to be aware that it could affect existing claimants. Either because we get reassessed into LCW or capable of work.....or because at some point in the future we will be transferred across to UC. Transitional protection protects the finances so we don't lose out, but everything else is UC rules and regs.

    BB
    Last edited by brightonbelle; 15-03-17 at 13:41.

  4. #14
    brightonbelle
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Joelr55 View Post
    Very useful info posted here - many thanks. I am in the WRAG and been on ESA for more than 2 years due to severe depression following my divorce. Male, I'm in my early 60's now. it was devastating. I used to teach, but was put on the work programme 6 months ago by my ESA adviser and it wasn't explained that it was voluntary. I'm trying to rebuild my life and so doing some permitted work (teaching). Only work 7 hours per week at the mo but because of an occupational pension, don't think I'll get any ESA at all from now on because I'm earning. if so, can I leave the work programme because there'll be no financial sanction? To be honest, my WP advisor is a nightmare and very intense, bordering on rude.
    Once on the work programme your on the books for two years (as its the old programme) and mandated to attend under threat of financial sanctions. Technically no you cant leave the programme, but you can stop doing the programme. If your not getting any IB ESA money due to income, and are only receiving NI credits....you are not required to participate in any work related activity, which includes attending at your work programme provider.

    Please be aware that once you tell them you are working, they will flog a dead horse to try and get info from you, as they will get paid for the success in you getting a job. Permitted work may not be classed as "work" as such, or it might, but you can be sure that they will try and get the info just in case. Expect lots of phone calls. Feel free to ignore them, you don't have to tell them. It may be that after an initial attempt at getting the info they stop....but near the end of the two year period, expect another round. For an easy life you could get them off your back by telling them what they want to know.....or not, if you were inclined to a little bit of revenge....just sayin!

    This advice is based on you being on income based esa from what you put in the post. If you need to keep your ESA claim alive to get the credits, you may still have to have some level of contact with the job centre. But you can take pleasure in letting the work programme advisor know you wont be needing their services any more

    HTH BB

    http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/for...d=10&id=101671
    Last edited by brightonbelle; 15-03-17 at 13:19.

  5. #15
    Thanks for your good wishes brightonbelle. Good luck to you too.

    Will watch out for the new work and health programme!

  6. #16
    brightonbelle
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Izzy2 View Post
    Thanks for your good wishes brightonbelle. Good luck to you too.

    Will watch out for the new work and health programme!
    Izzy,

    I don't know your circumstances, ie where you live and if you qualify for income based benefit with disability premiums....

    but just to be aware that you not only need to keep an eye on the programme, keep an eye out for universal credit in your area. Nuke will correct me if I get it the wrong way round, but there's live and then there's full areas.

    live service is where UC is up and running, but not for disabled claimants

    full service is where its up and running and may be taking on disabled people claiming income based ESA. Transitional (financial) protection only kicks in if they transfer you from ESA to UC. A change in circumstances may be enough to get moved over onto UC, and there will be no transitional protection.

    http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/11033/

    BB

  7. #17
    Thanks brightonbelle. I'm aware of these issues. Universal credit won't come in for everybody in my area until next year, so I'll be OK until then, at least.

    I realise it's possible that a certain level of work may be considered a change of circumstance, but I suppose it would very much depend on how many hours a person was doing and how much they're earning. It may depend on individual circumstances?

    In my case, I will probably be going onto UC, at some point, but it'll either be by the managed migration process, or possibly sooner, if my business takes off. I can't see myself doing more than 16 hours, for the foreseeable future, though, if ever.

  8. #18
    brightonbelle
    Guest
    ...very badly worded indeed......hence being on the cautious side.

    So, it may be that they are saying the permitted work has become permanent by virtue of exceeding the hours and it becoming "normal", and to go off and claim tax credits. In that case they would be moving from sick to in work.....as tax credits is the in work benefit. In this case is "permanent" being used to define permitted work has ended, as opposed to the actual permitted work being classed as permanent. But would that then mean that only a short period of excess hours is enough to be classed a permanent move.

    So why the "permitted work becomes permanent" ...why not "permitted work becomes unpermitted" or "permitted work becomes work".
    Is it implying that it is still permitted work, still under 16hrs, but in some way, shape of form, it has been defined as moving from a temporary permitted work to permanent permitted work?

    The only thing that is clear to me, is that people doing permitted work would be wise to keep an eye out for the length of time they are doing PW, and never ever exceed the hours, and make sure any contract signed isn't a permanent contract

    Only my view, ...........but the government want's to get more people onto UC and off legacy benefits sooner rather than later. Anything to reduce the final number of claimants they will have to actively manage over (transfer), so that less people have transitional protection.

    Having said that, there are so many millions of existing claimants from a variety of income based benefits. They have only managed to get I think 500,000 straightforward cases* onto UC so far. The system is years behind and not fit for purpose. One can only hope that the aim of getting significantly more new and existing claimants onto UC, is the workload that causes the system to implode.

    BB

    * straightforward being able bodied singles and couples.

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