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Thread: More on benefits

  1. #1
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  2. #2
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    It was always going to be the case that this change as announced was only going to apply to ESA and not PIP.

    They specifically talked about the WCA which is not part of PIP.

    PIP awards have a set end date, ESA awards are 'open ended' (read indefinite).

    Interesting to note that they confirmed the change will only apply to SG and not WRAG.
    It confirms some thoughts I have that I haven't posted yet. (Still thinking through all the implications).

    Hopefully, before anything becomes law on this, campaigning will get it to include WRAG and PIP as well.
    Don't hold your breath.
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    Both my ESA (Support group) and PIP (High rate Mob and standard daily care) were set at 10 years before review, and yes I know they can be called anytime......and so far after 3 years no calls for review..I am confident that I meet the same criteria as the initial assessments although I know this is not a guarantee.
    I feel that in the case of severe COPD such as I have there is no purpose in an ESA retest, it is a progressive condition.
    It seems to me that in such cases there should be a crosslinking of ESA and PIP and if an ESA retest in not to be pursued then neither should the PIP retest for the same person with the same condition.

  4. #4
    Senior Member deebee's Avatar
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    Wholeheartedly agree
    Obviously some conditions may get better,and all the good if they do!
    Wouldn,t every single one of us like to wake up tomorrow and find that we are improved in health so much that we can go back to work,throw away our aids,and go mountain climbing!
    But for conditions that are only clearly going to get worse,all this constantly re testing is just stressful to the claimant,and down right costly to the taxpayer

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by nukecad View Post
    Interesting to note that they confirmed the change will only apply to SG and not WRAG.
    It confirms some thoughts I have that I haven't posted yet. (Still thinking through all the implications).

    Hopefully, before anything becomes law on this, campaigning will get it to include WRAG and PIP as well.
    Don't hold your breath.
    Yes, because what about all those people who were inappropriately put in the WRAG, when they should have been in the SG!! I'm pretty sure there will be people who have one, or more, of the yet to be specified, "permanent" conditions, who have ended up in the WRAG.

    It doesn't make a lot of sense. Either, people have a serious case of a one of these conditions, or they don't, regardless of which group they are in.

    I suppose the government doesn't want to admit how rubbish and inaccurate their assessments have been! I read somewhere that between Dec 2015 and Feb 2016 there was a more than 40% drop in people being placed in the SG. No explanation has been offered by the DWP.

  6. #6
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    OK here are my thoughts on just what they may be trying achieve with this.
    (Still needs a bit more thinking but its's almost there).
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    It makes me wonder if this is the next stage of getting rid of the ESA and the WCA altogether?

    Bear with my thoughts on what the gov. may be intending in the long run.

    IR ESA WRAG is already going to change to UC-LCW, which is set to change to only pay the same benefit as a Jobseeker.
    So instead of a costly assessment process why not take the GP's word for it that the claimant is too ill to work? (It will make no difference to what they are paying in benefit).

    CB ESA WRAG only lasts for 52 weeks anyway, so scrap it altogether.
    Yes that would be unfair for those who have paid their NI contributions; but when have they been bothered about being fair?
    You would have to claim UC-LCW instead. (Hard luck if you have any savings, capital, or a working partner).

    That's ESA WRAG gone.

    CB ESA SG (and the very few UC-LCWRA) could now be decided by having a list of qualifying conditions, doing away with the need for assessments.
    As this would now be paid until retirement age it seems inapropriate to call it 'Employment Support Allowance' so lets call it something else - How about Incapacity Benefit?.

    Job done;

    ESA completely gone; no more critisism of WCA's; lots of money saved not having to pay Maximus to do assessments, more saved by scrapping CB WRAG.
    Most governments would see that as a winning situation.

    OH - and basically we're back to where we were before they started messing about with Welfare Reforms.
    Last edited by nukecad; 08-10-16 at 15:43.
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  7. #7
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    Not to mention, no more paying for tribunals for the incorrect decisions from Maximus/ATOS.

  8. #8
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    Think you have a point nukecad guess only time will tell!

  9. #9
    I think you may have a point too, but if you're right, I worry what will happen to the people who should have been in the SG, in the first place, but end up in UC-LCW.

    I'm interested in this mysterious list of conditions, because in the past, when the WCA was created, there was such a list then - and people with these conditions were exempted from the WCA! If I remember correctly, it was a very small list, however, the bizarre thing is that some of the people who were previously exempted, are now in the WRAG. It seems they miraculously leap-frogged the SG!

    Any ideas what's going to happen to this group? I can see that the government won't want to admit this group exists, but they must know about it - and realise it conflicts with their plan to create a list of exempt conditions.

  10. #10
    Senior Member nukecad's Avatar
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    They have wanted rid of WRAG for a long time.

    First step was to put WRAG on the Work Programme.
    Not the same as job seekers but almost.

    Second step was to make WRAG pay the same as JSA (new claims from 2017).

    Third step....... watch this space, and see what I said above.
    I don't know everything. - But I'm good at searching for, and finding, stuff.

    Migration from ESA to Universal Credit- Click here for information.

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