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Thread: pip; no medical evidence due to system abusive. no way forward if abusive system wins

  1. #1

    pip; no medical evidence due to system abusive. no way forward if abusive system wins

    Hi

    Posted once before, and know everyone here is struggling with the dwp etc, and that my situation is very complex and may be offputting. To the person who replied before, I'm thankful. I wouldn't take time up unless I was absolutely desperate, so would just request if anyone has any ideas to just briefly let me know. I will try to summarise as best I can.

    Physical ill health (back/hips) got very bad after 10 years (very low paid) heavy carework plus car crash caused me to limp. Extreme pain now; meds not touching it, crutches. Had to withdraw in 2002. Traumatic past re x-family; pillar to post, tried best to find work and cope. 2006 seemingly mind collapsed; thought was being haunted. Horrific 5-senses r@pe/torture/abuse that got worse and worse. Very wary of the system, after all carework, as know there can be some v nasty people there, but by the end of 2013, was just too bad. Dreadful time since, abuse by mental health system eg assessed with ddnos (I feel it's DID, tbh) and unstable personality. Promised long term psychotherapy and referred on; place not good, and, when to first 'therapy' appointment, dropped EMDR on me, which is entirely unsafe for someone like me [no support system, very active episodes going on]. Therapist abusive; too fast, and used diagnosis against me when I said I didn't have time to think or answer properly, then she went into graphic rape description, continuing when she saw me cry. At 2nd appointment (recorded it, as terrified of no backup), questioned why emdr and abusive, what about safety etc. Kept calm, but she threatened to write that me uncooperative; I had no option but to withdraw, as clearly unsafe, and make complaint. Complaint system just as corrupt (pals and ombudsman). 16 months trying to get answers; only points upheld were what the recording showed, that her v much about her agenda, not listening, etc. End result; nothing, except I should self-refer via GP, to a different team. Too damaged. Along with all this, bad gp ... most of medical records missing before 2013 (when to this gp), and no birth town noted and wrong ethnicity, and someone else's entry in my records. GP unpleasant as I requested 2nd diagnosis, as his psychiatrist close friend had been v unpleasant to me and misdiagnosed. This GP went on to say I should sort myself, and also has misrepresented me to the dwp, and stuck with that, despite me challenge him, with an advocate there in the room too. He put 'chronic mental health, no medication'. Nothing about v bad physical health and why no meds for mental health (111 called ambulance as me in such pain). At last managed to register at a new gp, who so far v nice about simple things, but have been too nervous to speak with about all this, although know I must.

    Advocate place made appt for me with local welfare rights person. He says I must go to gp and tell. Desperately need more painkillers too. Welfare rights man concerned about no evidence. I am on Support ESA, and was on DLA for years. Have copy of dwp letter from 2013, where they state I can hardly walk etc, yet pip wca this time gave me 2 points, about communication, because I was too distressed at one point and advocate had to speak up. They entirely ignored mental health, and that I was wearing arthritis mitts, using a stick, clearly in pain, and said about suicidal/can't cope. Clearly not qualified. They pretended to care too, expressing concern that my back was clearly sore during brief examination, and pretending to respect that I didn't want to be touched.

    Life is over if, due to no recent medical evidence, the abusive mental health/complaints/general system wins, leaving me with no way to go out at all ... I couldn't afford taxi to gp or to any therapy, if that was ever possible, or about meds that help me but that I can't have on prescription, or manage to pay for home help or help showering, which I'm feeling I need soon. Am 50, just, but don't know how to cope. The irony is that I have qualifications, worked well in the past, cared, have good art qualifications, and did have plans eg artist and art therapy, but, due to nobody there to help with mental or physical help, and now alone since 2002, entirely, I just am stunned. Treated as on the rubbish heap. They clearly want people to kill themselves, and want to remove any hope or resources, not caring whether it's a slow death that way, or a quick death due to overwhelm.

    They witheld any DLA evidence held on me, yet sent IB/ESA. Welfare rights advisor has said to write back and say I am entitled to see the information on me, according to Data Protection Act the dwp wrongly quoted as the reason. I have evidence up to 2013, but nothing really since then, due to abuse by gp/mental health system/complaints system etc. Was on high rate mobility, low rate care, re DLA, and surely being in Support group ESA is something; yet they've still given me zero points except the 2 for communication. Had no x-rays for about 14 years, despite asking.

    Surely the bottom line cannot be that someone too ill to go out/cope, mentally and physically, and who's been clearly abused by the system, can't be written off and basically imprisoned at home to die, because of lack of recent evidence? Surely they would see I'm bound to have got worse in the last 3 years, and had solid evidence before?

    I'm sorry I can't summarise better. Very hard to ask for ideas about evidence without detailing circumstances. I don't really like posting; very dissociated, but don't know what else to do but post where others are dealing with the same vile system and surely have some ideas. I would be very grateful. Thank you.

  2. #2
    Senior Member deebee's Avatar
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    You say that you now have a nice gp,but they have only seen you so far for routine stuff and don't know of your situation
    A good first step would be to book yourself a double appointment,take a deep breath and explain all
    Start the conversation by saying,I have specifically booked a double appointment with you today because....
    I have been in a position before where the Dr I was with was unhelpful and did not believe that I had the symptoms I was having
    I have a physical illness which took 3 years to diagnose,mainly due to Dr
    When I finally got diagnosed by a specialist the gp struck me off,so I can sympathise with you regarding previous unhelpful gp
    However,now that you have the new nice one the ball is in your court to biuld up on that and to confide
    It takes a long time to build a good rap our with a gp but can be a godsend if you are able
    When I was struck off I was at my worst health wise and having to find a new one seemed like the end of the world at the time
    Now several years on I can honestly say I would be comfortable telling my new gp anything and it makes all the difference
    I wish you luck
    Oh and also,due to nervousness,you are bound to forget something
    Take a list with you to make sure you cover everything
    Nothing elaborate,just bullet points

  3. #3
    Thank you very much, deebee. I know my post was complex and that it would make rather intense reading, so I really appreciate your very helpful and clear response. You're absolutely right, and I am also very heartened that you have been able to build a great relationship with your new gp; that's a really great thing for you, and also encourages me. You've advised exactly what I'd been thinking I should do, but just felt too overwhelmed about trying to summarise everything, plus nervous incase going deeper back fired, but so far this gp surgery has been lovely ... the receptionists, sorting out prescriptions, everything has been nice. I must bite the bullet! I'll aim to call the gp on Monday, and try to finally summarise notes before then ... I want to be as helpful to them and myself as I can be, so you're right, the simpler the better.
    Thank you for your good wishes too.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
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    Emdr.....I had that performed at bereavement councilling some years ago. It hurt my eyes so much and made me dizzy. Why is it dangerous?

    Maybe your request for medical information is that it's in some way harmful information due to your history maybe.

    Harmful Information
    Harmful information is anything that would be considered harmful to a patient’s health, if they were to become aware of it, (e.g. a diagnosis of a malignancy). This may be legally withheld from a patient and would not be released by DWP. Please put any harmful information either in the relevant section of the report or on a separate sheet of paper


    Not saying malignancy but harmful can also be due to mental health.

    I did sar to the dwp and there is one page missing on mine. To do with esa but i think I know what it is as it does state it somewhere else. I really have not made a complaint or anything about it because I don't want to know tbh. If it is true and was kept ftom me then I totally agree with them because I would have worried myself to death most probably. That I do agree with. It's to do with a medical report from my gp. I have never questioned it either with my gp so it's not all bad and my relationship is not that bad with them hopefully. I just need things straight in my head before i can move on sometjmes. Some things are best left in the past. I don't want to know either way. I am here still. I survived and will continue to do so as will you hopefully.
    You sound lost and hurt by the system. You also sound like you have rights to be too. People understand that and not everyone that works in the system is bad. I had some excellent surgeons, consultants etc. I wouldn't be here now if it wasn't for one I don't think. Some not too good but overall we have no choice than to trust them do we. Most do their best. I did get apologies from my gp and that was something.

    Do go to visit your new gp. He or she deserves a chance don't they (just like you do at getting the help you need). Don't be put off by one bad one.

    Have you actually had a decision on your pip yet? I am sorry if you posted elsewhere?
    Last edited by KAREN SV; 07-04-16 at 13:57.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by KAREN SV View Post
    Emdr.....I had that performed at bereavement councilling some years ago. It hurt my eyes so much and made me dizzy. Why is it dangerous?

    Maybe your request for medical information is that it's in some way harmful information due to your history maybe.

    Harmful Information
    Harmful information is anything that would be considered harmful to a patient’s health, if they were to become aware of it, (e.g. a diagnosis of a malignancy). This may be legally withheld from a patient and would not be released by DWP. Please put any harmful information either in the relevant section of the report or on a separate sheet of paper


    Not saying malignancy but harmful can also be due to mental health.
    Thanks, Karen, and there's so much I haven't written up in the post, so I can understand why there might be any confusion or misunderstanding. I can understand they may have felt it would help you with grief, as it can be safe to use for certain past events. It isn't safe if there isn't a support system, stability, or there are serious active mental health episodes in the present, which is my situation. I have to say I seriously am suspicious of something that inflicts physical pain in the name of healing, too. If it worked for you, that's great, but I'm a believer in time, love, and listening, and definitely disagree with anything that causes distress and pain ... I feel it's more about teh system rushing people through so they can tick a box, rather than take the time to listen and care.

    Also, regarding that emdr was dropped on me, the therapist was diabolical ... used a second mental health diagnosis I didn't even know about against me when I asked her to slow down her speech, as I had no time to think or answer properly ... kept talking at the same pace. She also launched into deep trauma content within 20 minutes of meeting, after assuring me she wouldn't. She continued more graphically, despite me bursting into tears. When, on the 2nd, and final, meeting, I asked about safety etc, she pushed her own agenda throughout, saying I was taking up time away from her agenda. I was getting no answers to basic questions about safety and trust, and I never raised my voice or was unpleasant [did a recording, for my own safety]. She then threatened to write in my notes that I am uncooperative/don't listen, at which point I got really scared and realised I must get out of this and had to complain; thus began 16 horrible months of trying to get justice, during which at every stage the organisation were abusive in running with her lie of me being uncooperative, signed me off from care, wrote to negative gp to say I'm uncooperative, and left me to refer myself to another team as and when. I'd been referred to that organisation specifically for long-term psychotherapy, for very serious trauma/mental health episodes, yet had emdr dropped on me at the first appointment, having never even had emdr mentioned to me previously.

    That's the bit I didn't type, as my post was already rather lengthy and challenging. I hope the emdr was helpful to you, but I really do worry that it caused you physical pain.

    I've seen brief reference to diagnosis in mangled medical records, but nothing else, eg not my letters included about abuse in the appointments etc. Nothing included that's relevant or helpful to me. The aim seems to have been to keep out of my records anything that would a) be complaining against the system, and b) any background that clearly showed how unkind it was to mess up treatment of me in the present.

    The only withheld part I know of, which the place where I was diagnosed had to admit during the complaints months, was that they withheld the 2nd diagnosis as they wanted to leave me free to deal with the main diagnosis (ddnos) ... yet they gave me no information or support, so it's just not true.

    Seems to be omissions, to support them and against me, mainly, but I'm glad you brought this up, as it's made me think more clearly. The clearer I get things in my head, the easier it is to make notes and communicate to the gp, so thank you. Don't get asked anything or get to work anything through, so I really appreciate that.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by KAREN SV View Post

    I did sar to the dwp and there is one page missing on mine. To do with esa but i think I know what it is as it does state it somewhere else. I really have not made a complaint or anything about it because I don't want to know tbh. If it is true and was kept ftom me then I totally agree with them because I would have worried myself to death most probably. That I do agree with. It's to do with a medical report from my gp. I have never questioned it either with my gp so it's not all bad and my relationship is not that bad with them hopefully. I just need things straight in my head before i can move on sometjmes. Some things are best left in the past. I don't want to know either way. I am here still. I survived and will continue to do so as will you hopefully.
    You sound lost and hurt by the system. You also sound like you have rights to be too. People understand that and not everyone that works in the system is bad. I had some excellent surgeons, consultants etc. Some not too good but overall we have no choice than to trust them do we. Most do their best. I did get apologies from my gp and that was something.

    Do go to visit your new gp. He or she deserves a chance don't they (just like you do at getting the help you need). Don't be put off by one bad one.

    Have you actually had a decision on your pip yet? I am sorry if you posted elsewhere?
    oops, just seen your edit, lol. I had meant to say in the reply I've just done that the DLA info arrived on Tuesday. Something really helpful in it is seeing what the GP wrote when asked for comment by the dwp; terrible, even said no physical issues at all (serious arthritis, pain, etc)! I can take that with me to new GP.

    I know what you mean about once you start scratching the surface about things, your gut tends to warn you what you find won't be nice. Sometimes have to do it, to fight for your rights/needs, but other times have to be careful. I do both ... I stay away from places that have proved to be really negative and had a really bad impact on my health, and have got a new gp now, plus very careful about initiating anything else. I find emailing first, for example, and seeing how long it takes to reply, if someone is helpful, etc, really helps with knowing whether to go further. With the dwp, we know their agenda, and we know that big organisations are all in on the same agenda. If you go in knowing that, then you can't be shocked/hurt, ultimately, but that takes some steel, steel I myself don't always have.

    It's scary to open a potential can of very nasty worms, and to fear being on the radar. I think we know that there are many out there who would love the opportunity to have a go. I was relieved to be off the radar for a long time, for that very reason, but, when you're dragged into it, sometimes the only way forward is to fight. It comes down to whether you can fight for yourself, or truly know a battle can't be won and to just drag yourself through it is harmful to yourself. I've done both. What matters loads too is if you have a support system or the quality of that support system. Dragging yourself through fire without a (good) support system is going to do harm. Then it really becomes about deciding whether you really must fight, to safeguard yourself, or withdraw and use your time/energy for something that safeguards yourself better.

    I completely get about trying to get things straight in your head first. I'm dealing with that all the time. I feel it's about trauma. When emotions are blocked and things are overwhelming, the brain just can't cope. That's the time to a) note down exactly the action you're going to take and try to rest in order to build up to that, b) do whatever actions are playing on your mind, and c) put on your favourite tv show and have a good rest! That's what I find. If I can't unwind as something is on my mind to do, I must just plough into it and work things clear in my head on paper (the pc), even if that means a lot of edits. Only then can I rest.

    You're right that some things are best left in the past. If those things have no 'charge', ie cause no pain or problems in your present, that's fine to leave those things be. I increasingly try to just deal with any 'charge', but to not link it too much with the past/events/people ... I realise what it is about but then move on to do an art sketch and just work with that. Sometimes just expressing feelings, in a positive container such as art, can really clear up anything remaining.

    Things have a way of working through. The key I find is to be as genuinely kind to yourself as you can be, plus accept that, if there are 'charged' things going on, that needs resolving, and I sometimes must accept that, in the sense of being open and willing to work something through. With my own health, I must be very careful to not trigger myself, as I don't have therapy etc, so I entirely understand about being careful. The core answer to all of this is listening to your own gut and being careful about being too hard on yourself ... getting rid of that 'charge' is a good idea early on, and whenever that comes up.

    Thank you for your kind wishes too. I'm sure you'll power on too, a day at a time. It's normal to fear more pain when going through too much. Keeping things as simple as possible (I find listening to my gut, and working through things when necessary, helps me with that) helps. Thank goodness for the ability to make a simple daily list, lol. I don't know where I'd be without it.

    Glad you got apologies, and you're right about there being good people out there. Thank you very much for your understanding. I think with my loss of faith, and how overwhelming the neglect has been, I decided young to rely only on me. That can implode; it's a big journey to go from mistrust to trust. The journey continues! I feel that my new gp could well be good about things, so it could be a really positive step to have the double appointment with them. The nurses were certainly very nice too, and one of them said one of the doctors vapes too (she saw my tank and device). I think that gp might have been put as my designated gp; fingers crossed. You're right about giving them a chance; better to be brave and do what is very clear to do. The welfare rights man has said I must see the gp too.

    Great that you've had some excellent consultants and surgeons; that must have made a really big difference to you, and mean that you cope better knowing that there are good people out there. The trauma nurse I was referred to way back about surgeries (pending, once I'm able/healthy) was very nice.

    Pip was refused on Jan 7th, then MR decision recently said the same; 2 points because advocate had to speak for me at one point. Next stage is tribunal. Welfare rights man (Chris) has sent off the form for me. Just waiting for the letters, which Chris has said could be a few weeks. In the meantime, can see gp. Trying to gear up to contact Mind, as they offer counselling, plus the option of telephone counselling, but need to feel more recovered; would be a big step, but it would be evidence, as long as I'm not triggered too much. Must listen to my gut!

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