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Thread: PIP - Making Budgeting Decisions

  1. #1
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    PIP - Making Budgeting Decisions

    Hi all, hoping for a little advice please.

    Just received my PIP decision which was turned down, got 6 for daily living and 4 for Mobility.

    Have had CFS for 8 years but continued / struggled through work, the last 2 years I have got so much worse, suffering really bad depression which at one point ended with my mum taking me to A&E as I wanted to end it.

    This is when my mum took control and started to help me ( id hidden how bad I was )

    On my PIP decision I'm surprised at where I didn't get points and I also got 4 for mobility when I have no problems with that!!!

    One thing I want to focus on for my Mandatory reconsideration is budgeting as this is where I think I should have got points.

    At the assessment my mum advised that she now does ALL budgeting for me since she discovered that I'd not been paying bills / rent etc and was in a complete mess.

    I've got letter after letter from companies such as NPower, Water, Landlord etc. Also since my mum took control we applied for a grant to help with 2 grands worth of arrears on utility which has been accepted and have a letter.

    Also I have free access to my credit report - u can print this off which shows default after default including CCJS and even my mobile contact being ended.

    I know that this alone may not be enough but if my mum wrote a letter explains how she now deals with it as I'm unable to along with evidence then do you think that I should have a chance? I don't see how I can prove it anymore than that??

    Hoping somebody can advise - thank you

  2. #2
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    Hmmmm Sad face for me as nobody wants to talk Budgeting!!! :-)

  3. #3
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    This is what the PIP Assessment Guide says about Making Budgeting decisions.

    Making budgeting decisions
    • The outcome in this activity is that the individual is able to make
    budgeting decisions. Simple budgeting decisions are decisions
    involving calculating the cost of goods and calculating change
    required after a purchase. Complex budgeting decisions are
    decisions involving calculating household and personal budgets,
    managing and paying bills and planning future purchases.
    • In order to complete this activity, claimants do not need in-depth
    financial knowledge. Complex budgeting decisions are those that
    are involved in calculating household and personal budgets,
    managing and paying bills and planning future purchases. The
    activity does not include the sort of decisions which require
    financial knowledge, such as calculating interest rates or
    comparing mortgages.
    • This activity does not specify whether the decisions are
    necessarily good decisions; however the individual must
    understand the decision they have made. For example, an
    individual may understand the importance of budgeting and know
    they have bills to pay at the end of the month, yet decides they will
    splash out on an expensive purchase at the start of the month,
    despite knowing that means they will not be able to pay their bills.
    Although that is not a good decision, the individual understands
    how to budget. However where bad budgeting decisions are
    made, consideration must be given to whether it is as a result of a
    health condition or impairment.
    • As with all activities, the inability to carry out the activity must be
    due to the claimant’s health condition or impairment. Many
    individuals may make bad decisions or be slightly indecisive, if
    this is not as a result of a health condition or impairment it should
    be discounted.
    • Similarly, some individuals may lack motivation to carry out this
    activity. Consideration must be given to whether this is as a result
    of a health condition or impairment and whether the individual
    would carry out the activity if they really had to, for example if they
    were to receive a final notice to pay a bill.

    Did you provide the evidence that you talked about for this - credit reference etc?

    Looking at the descriptors and if you meet the above criteria you may be eligible for an extra 2 points for 'needs assistance to be able to make complex budgeting decisions.

  4. #4
    Being turned down doesn't mean that you don't qualify. For many people it is a question of going through to appeal to have the claim looked at by an independent panel.

    Asking for mandatory reconsideration, you can actually lose points as well as gain them. As you have not qualified for any benefit, you have nothing to lose.

    You do need to look at the 6 points you got for daily living. If you provide evidence to support your claim about budgeting you may score points in that area but may lose some of the 6 points you score elsewhere. So it is important to ensure they have plenty of information too on where you have been able to score so you don't get marked down there.

    Good luck

  5. #5
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    Thank you for the replies, much appreciated and very helpful.

    No, I didn't take in any evidence for this, my mum did state that due to my illness I became incapable / not motivated to do any of this but obviously this wasn't enough.

    I shall be ringing tomorrow when I'm with my mum to ask for a Mandatory Reconsideration, request the report and evidence used and also advise that I shall be sending in extra evidence.

    I also have a letter from the Royal Artillery charity fund as was in the Army when I was younger, again my mum got in touch with them and they helped me out a great deal.

    Fingers crossed I won't lose points, I will talk about all the points on there and send in anything else I can think of and hope for the best!!!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmlindyloo View Post
    This is what the PIP Assessment Guide says about Making Budgeting decisions.

    Making budgeting decisions
    • The outcome in this activity is that the individual is able to make
    budgeting decisions. Simple budgeting decisions are decisions
    involving calculating the cost of goods and calculating change
    required after a purchase. Complex budgeting decisions are
    decisions involving calculating household and personal budgets,
    managing and paying bills and planning future purchases.
    • In order to complete this activity, claimants do not need in-depth
    financial knowledge. Complex budgeting decisions are those that
    are involved in calculating household and personal budgets,
    managing and paying bills and planning future purchases. The
    activity does not include the sort of decisions which require
    financial knowledge, such as calculating interest rates or
    comparing mortgages.
    • This activity does not specify whether the decisions are
    necessarily good decisions; however the individual must
    understand the decision they have made. For example, an
    individual may understand the importance of budgeting and know
    they have bills to pay at the end of the month, yet decides they will
    splash out on an expensive purchase at the start of the month,
    despite knowing that means they will not be able to pay their bills.
    Although that is not a good decision, the individual understands
    how to budget. However where bad budgeting decisions are
    made, consideration must be given to whether it is as a result of a
    health condition or impairment.
    • As with all activities, the inability to carry out the activity must be
    due to the claimant’s health condition or impairment. Many
    individuals may make bad decisions or be slightly indecisive, if
    this is not as a result of a health condition or impairment it should
    be discounted.
    • Similarly, some individuals may lack motivation to carry out this
    activity. Consideration must be given to whether this is as a result
    of a health condition or impairment and whether the individual
    would carry out the activity if they really had to, for example if they
    were to receive a final notice to pay a bill.

    Did you provide the evidence that you talked about for this - credit reference etc?

    Looking at the descriptors and if you meet the above criteria you may be eligible for an extra 2 points for 'needs assistance to be able to make complex budgeting decisions.

    This is very useful for my husband who cannot make budgeting decision as he once could anymore due to his Alzhiemers.

    Question : does the Reliably,Repeatedly,in a timely fashion,Safely ect apply to this descriptor as well ? Reason for asking is that my husband does still know what 2 + 2 is,but he cannot for example work out or indeed check his own bank statements correctly due to his memory problems and cognitive issues eg,memory judgment and reasoning ect ? He can on a good day still count to say 15 or 20,but when I comes to subtraction such as working out or planning change,bank statements ect) he often either gets it very wrong,gives up trying,and or is left in a very confused and upset state of mind and more often than not,all three apply.

    Help me please,It's so confusing ?


    Oxy.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxycontin View Post
    Question : does the Reliably,Repeatedly,in a timely fashion,Safely ect apply to this descriptor as well ? .
    Yes, these criteria apply to every descriptor across the board.

    When putting in your additional information you should always make reference to how your disability / condition prevents you from being able to meet this criteria.

    For example for my wife we have put the following for budgeting (she suffers from EDS Type 3 which as part of the condition results in "brain fog" and getting muddled with numbers and facts extremely easily)

    "Due to my condition it often leaves me tired and unable to concentrate to a sufficient degree where I am able to process complex budgeting decisions such as managing household budgets or paying bills, on my own. My husband manages all of the household budgets and any payment for bills is handled by him. This is referred to as "brain fog" and is one of the side effects of EDS Type 3.

    I would not be able to complete this task to an acceptable standard, repeatedly or in a reasonable time period due to not understanding complex budgeting decisions that would be contained within managing a household budget and not being able to complete the task at all, let alone in a reasonable time period that is defined as "no more than twice as long as an able bodied person".
    When I have had this explained to me in the past and when I have gone through this with my husband to try and understand it, it is as though he is speaking a foreign language. It left me extremely confused and I was unable to complete this task even after spending over an hour looking at the figures and how everything was paid for and accounted.
    Whenever there are any budgeting decisions or anything involving money and budgets in our household it is handled by my husband.


    We have other stuff in this section but hopefully this should give an example of how to ALWAYS relate is back to the safely, acceptable standard, repeatedly, reasonable time period. If, as a result of your condition, you cannot do any of these 4 then you need to go to town on it in your description as this is what the DM will be looking at when they assess your claim.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob250881 View Post
    Yes, these criteria apply to every descriptor across the board.

    When putting in your additional information you should always make reference to how your disability / condition prevents you from being able to meet this criteria.

    For example for my wife we have put the following for budgeting (she suffers from EDS Type 3 which as part of the condition results in "brain fog" and getting muddled with numbers and facts extremely easily)

    "Due to my condition it often leaves me tired and unable to concentrate to a sufficient degree where I am able to process complex budgeting decisions such as managing household budgets or paying bills, on my own. My husband manages all of the household budgets and any payment for bills is handled by him. This is referred to as "brain fog" and is one of the side effects of EDS Type 3.

    I would not be able to complete this task to an acceptable standard, repeatedly or in a reasonable time period due to not understanding complex budgeting decisions that would be contained within managing a household budget and not being able to complete the task at all, let alone in a reasonable time period that is defined as "no more than twice as long as an able bodied person".
    When I have had this explained to me in the past and when I have gone through this with my husband to try and understand it, it is as though he is speaking a foreign language. It left me extremely confused and I was unable to complete this task even after spending over an hour looking at the figures and how everything was paid for and accounted.
    Whenever there are any budgeting decisions or anything involving money and budgets in our household it is handled by my husband.


    We have other stuff in this section but hopefully this should give an example of how to ALWAYS relate is back to the safely, acceptable standard, repeatedly, reasonable time period. If, as a result of your condition, you cannot do any of these 4 then you need to go to town on it in your description as this is what the DM will be looking at when they assess your claim.


    Hi Rob,

    This is invaluable help and advice for our situation. Thank you so much for this example. Alzheimer's is a cruel mental illness for which there is no known cure,yet it's so hard to explain at times.

    Just to add,Im writing down notes now such as this as we are due sometime in October to transfer over from DLA to PIP. Under the ' indefinite ' award my husband has received for many years .

    Thank you again Rob.
    Last edited by Oxycontin; 21-07-15 at 18:35.

  9. #9
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    I wish I had the links to hand but the two bits of information I found really useful (besides the descriptors) were

    Disability Rights UK - Personal Independence Payment. A guide to making a claim this was a 60 page document
    Benefits and Work - Personal Independence Payment (PIP) Claims on physical health, mental health and learning difficulties grounds - Version 12 - this is about 70 pages

    The key thing is to always relate it to the 4 factors they are looking for. DWP want to know how your condition means you can't meet their descriptors. If you waffle on and write 100 pages this might just give them the information they are after if they piece it all together. Or, you could write a couple of detailed paragraphs specifically mentioning what they are looking for, and how you can't do it and make it really hard for them to argue otherwise!

    There is lots of information out there, the trouble is finding it!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob250881 View Post
    I wish I had the links to hand but the two bits of information I found really useful (besides the descriptors) were

    Disability Rights UK - Personal Independence Payment. A guide to making a claim this was a 60 page document
    Benefits and Work - Personal Independence Payment (PIP) Claims on physical health, mental health and learning difficulties grounds - Version 12 - this is about 70 pages

    The key thing is to always relate it to the 4 factors they are looking for. DWP want to know how your condition means you can't meet their descriptors. If you waffle on and write 100 pages this might just give them the information they are after if they piece it all together. Or, you could write a couple of detailed paragraphs specifically mentioning what they are looking for, and how you can't do it and make it really hard for them to argue otherwise!

    There is lots of information out there, the trouble is finding it!


    Hello again,

    Yes,Other websites have helped us in the past,although nothing beats talking to other people who have similar issues. I have had to do most of the form filling over the last few years as hubby can no longer express himself with pen and paper due to issues with his mental health as already discussed. Although its tim consuming, So far so good,but this latest transaction from DLA to PIP seems daunting as so many people tell you about failures or even worse having good solid paper and verbal evidence turned against them or even ignored it seems by some of these so called ' health professionals' ATOS use. My biggest worry is having to go with hubby to said ' medical' (as so far we never had to do this) due to awards via paper based evidence alone,this would be a nightmare for us as hubby cannot get his words out and finds constructing sentences very difficult. He also shuns situations involving meeting other people for reasons given,this in turn makes it impossible for him to communicate properly with anyone or anything due to his diminished memory and failing cognitive issues.


    Good luck everyone.


    Oxy.
    Last edited by Oxycontin; 22-07-15 at 09:49.

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