When not being able to use public transport for planing and making journeys

[James32]

Hello everybody

Please can somebody clarify this issue to me. I read that anybody who is' incapable of using public transport should not be counted by the dwp as being able to make unfamiliar journeys' alone? Therefore I suppose they would satisfy descriptor 11 d and get 10 points.

Suppose they have a mental health problem and there are specific things about being in public transport that flare up there symptoms and cause them severe mental distress. Naturally they avoid using public transport in the first place. I suppose this would mean they are unable to use public transport reliably.

Would this qualify them to get the 10 points as they are unable to specifically use public transport reliably and hence cannot make unfamiliar journeys?

Or when they say unable to use public transport do they specifically mean cannot follow the routes cognitively e.g. concentrate on a map? Therefore if someone is caused severe distress and do not use public transport for mental health reasons, provided they have the mental capacity to understand a route regardless of what other mental issues they experience/if they suffer on the way/or execute the actvity, they will not be given the points?

Many thanks

[carl30]

This is a point I've been unsure about. The legislation states that this activity relates to your ability as pedestrian/public transport user only.

Others have stated your ability to drive should be relevant.

If you didn't complete the journey using public transport, then what would you do? Drive, taxi, walking etc.

[carl30]

Also anxiety is covered by the two descriptors regarding emotional distress. If it's just anxiety based this is likely to be the appropriate descriptor. Note that the 10 points emotional distress descriptor states you can't leave your home alone.

[James32]

Also anxiety is covered by the two descriptors regarding emotional distress. If it's just anxiety based this is likely to be the appropriate descriptor. Note that the 10 points emotional distress descriptor states you can't leave your home alone.

I think the issue is that, when considering whether someone is capable of using public transport or not and hence following unfamiliar journeys, should not being able to use public transport reliably due to specific anxieties and symptoms associated with public transport, mean they cannot use it and hence satisfy 11 d?

Someone may be able to leave the house after prompting but they will still not use public transport, likewise someone still may not leave the home alone but can still manage to use public transport. Therefore shouldn't people, as I have described' still more points from c,d etc rather than just b or e? Can somebody shed some light on this?

Thanks

[pmlindyloo]

This is the information from the Assessors guide:

• The outcome of this activity is that the individual is able to work out
how to get somewhere and then follow that route for either a
familiar or unfamiliar journey.
• When planning the journey the claimant must be able to work out a
sensible route, however, in order to be acceptable it may not need
to be the most direct route, for example many individuals will plan a
train journey that is slightly longer but involves fewer changes, or a
car journey that is not the most direct but avoids difficult or busy
roads and junctions.
• When following the journey, consideration needs to be given to
whether the claimant is likely to get lost. Clearly many people will
get a little lost in unfamiliar locations and that is expected, but most
are able to recover and eventually reach their target location. An
individual who would get excessively lost, or be unable to recover
from getting lost would be unable to complete the activity to an
acceptable standard.

Not sure how helpful that is!

[carl30]

I suspect 11e may be more likely to be awarded and is worth the same points.

The actual wording was follow any journey. I'd imagine this could apply if you couldn't do so using the bus, but could walk. Not all of your journeys will be within walking distance.

[James32]

• When following the journey, consideration needs to be given to
whether the claimant is likely to get lost. Clearly many people will
get a little lost in unfamiliar locations and that is expected, but most
are able to recover and eventually reach their target location. An
individual who would get excessively lost, or be unable to recover
from getting lost would be unable to complete the activity to an
acceptable standard.

Not sure how helpful that is!

I wonder if follow means follow cognitively only. If someone plans and starts a journey, then gets off a quarter way because they cannot handle the symptoms caused by the journey, although they haven't failed cognitively, they have failed in execution(perhaps following the route) due to mental health impairment. So I wonder what is meant by follow.

I suspect 11e may be more likely to be awarded and is worth the same points

I believe 'Any journey' means familiar, unfamiliar, using or not using transport right(e.g. walking to your doctor). If you can manage to walk to your doctor regularly(regardless of if you can't use transport), I think this means you can undertake a journey so descriptor e 'cannot undertake ANY' journey doesn't apply. Likewise someone said e only applied where you need assistance leaving the home, which again has no relation to public transport so doesn't look like it applies either.
It seems that the public transport issue depends on whats is meant by follow. I would think abandoning the journey due to symptoms means you can't follow a journey but I guess they are just interested in cognitive issues e.g will you get lost rather then will you disband and find an alternative way home.

[carl30]

I believe 'Any journey' means familiar, unfamiliar, using or not using transport right(e.g. walking to your doctor). If you can manage to walk to your doctor regularly(regardless of if you can't use transport), I think this means you can undertake a journey so descriptor e 'cannot undertake ANY' journey doesn't apply. Likewise someone said e only applied where you need assistance leaving the home, which again has no relation to public transport so doesn't look like it applies either.
It seems that the public transport issue depends on whats is meant by follow. I would think abandoning the journey due to symptoms means you can't follow a journey but I guess they are just interested in cognitive issues e.g will you get lost rather then will you disband and find an alternative way home.

Your problem is that there are 2 descriptors that specifically mention psychological distress. Anxiety will be treated as psychological distress. This means anyone claiming mobility purely for anxiety is going to be awarded one of these 2 descriptors.

The vast majority will be gave the 4 point descriptor meaning no award unless they also get awarded on moving around. The most severe cases will be gave the 10 point descriptor, meaning its impossible to get enhanced rate unless you also get something on moving around.

The 2 following descriptors appear to be aimed at either cognitive difficulties or sensory difficulties.

[Paty01]

Your problem is that there are 2 descriptors that specifically mention psychological distress. Anxiety will be treated as psychological distress. This means anyone claiming mobility purely for anxiety is going to be awarded one of these 2 descriptors.

The vast majority will be gave the 4 point descriptor meaning no award unless they also get awarded on moving around. The most severe cases will be gave the 10 point descriptor, meaning its impossible to get enhanced rate unless you also get something on moving around.

The 2 following descriptors appear to be aimed at either cognitive difficulties or sensory difficulties.

Hi James

I'm glad you mentioned this one of the questions i was asked from my assessor was if i could follow the route to my doctors because i was familiar with the place as it's in my town not far from my home? knowing that the only way i could get there even though i knew where it was wouldn't be a problem but i still would need the help from a family member just in case of a panic attack?

The Assessor does not mention do i need help from anyone if i could get to a familar place so that confused me, then he asked if i could take an unfamilair route by a car or taxi so i waited a moment how to answer this as i know with my anxiety stress i don't like going to places that i'm not familair with, like if i was asked to go to medical assessment and it took me out of my town then i would still get very anxious and would need a family member to take me