Starting work - Universal credit switchover?

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Originally Posted by nukecad

Look at the journal in your new UC account, and especially at the "To do" listings which tell you about appointments etc.

Again you are doing exactly the right thing for you by claiming UC before you started the work.

Your UC claim started as soon as you clicked that 'Submit' button, the rest is just admin and officialese.
(for example I did mine on the 14th but didn't hear back from them on my journal for a few days, but my claim still shows as being made on the 14th and that's what counts)

Start the work on Monday, now that you have submitted your UC claim it should not be any problem.

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Hi Nukecad,

Thankyou for clearing up the matter! it’s very reassuring to know my UC claim has already started (even without the ID verification first) I’m going to start the job on Monday, hopefully all goes well but if it doesn’t at least I have UC to fall back on without starting over from scratch.

I will keep an eye on my journal and to do list for any appointments. Thanks again.

Edit; also hoping what I’m calling ‘job trial’ doesn’t trigger any potential early work capability reassessments from the DWP because tbh the job does somewhat contradict the reason I’m claiming LCWRA, I struggle with debilitating physical ailments and I particularly suffer with poor mental health issues, I’m hoping by the time I’ve had my ‘job trial’ I will know if I’m ready to move on with work.

Good luck with the job.

As said your LCWRA should carry straight over so shouldn't mean a new WCA, unless you were already due for one.

Of course when you do next have one then if you are still working it will make a difference.
The most likely would be a drop from LCWRA to LCW, (ie. you can work but are limited as to what you can do), but a fit-for-work can't be ruled out.
But by that time you would be working anyway.

Thanks Nukecad,

Unfortunately after careful consideration regrettably I’ve decided against starting work.

It’s too much of a gamble in regards to my own health and work capability, also potential ammunition it may provide the assessors/decision makers in my next WCA.

I fear even if the job trial only lasted a week or two and found I couldn’t handle the job and had to leave, that would be enough to go against my LCWRA component and potentially LCW when I’m eventually reassessed.

Yesterday I had to ‘report a change of circumstance’ in my UC account under ‘work and earnings’, i initially declared when setting up the UC claim I’m starting work 29th November (today) and told them the hours and pay rate, I’ve amended the answer to the question ‘are you starting work in the next month?’ to ‘No’, hopefully that alone won’t stir up any potential problems for me.

Oh, well.

You have probably done the correct thing for yourself by claiming UC anyway, as said in your particular circumstances you will get more money with UC.

The 'intending to start work' but then not doing is a bit of a complication but shouldn't change things.
They may ask you to explain why the job didn't start as expected.
Just explain that you were being over-optomistic, but have realised that the work would be detrimental to your health.
DONT mention any worries about future WCA's, If they think that was the only reason then they could get awkward.

Thanks Nukecad, I think that will be one for the ‘work coach’, I won’t be saying anything that complicates things for myself.

I had my ID verification appointment this morning at a local JC.

The appointment was very simple, just handed over my drivers license, birth certificate and bank card, then they booked the next appointment on Friday to see a ‘work coach’ which I assume is the claimant commitment appointment.

The person I saw stated I would receive a ‘standard rate’ of UC amounting to £320….something pounds on 1st January, I explained I was currently receiving ESA Support Group and asked how long would take long to transfer over the ESA entitlement to Uc? and was told ‘just wait and and see what work coach says’, not very helpful.

When I got back home I got another notification on my journal stating that ‘claiming universal credit can affect the other benefits such as JSA, ESA, HB’ etc…then said ‘are records show you DONT receive any of these benefits currently, if you do, please contact your benefit office and tell them you are now claiming UC and that they should update their records’? Hopefully this will all be done automatically like you say.

Now I’m waiting for claimant commitment appointment, I’m a little apprehensive in case the ‘work coach’ makes life difficult for me and ask me for ‘fit notes’ while I wait for ESA to transfer over, or possibly start work related activities, or they tell me I’m not entitled to LCWRA because my ESA award prognosis date is up (think additional year was added due to the pandemic) and need another WCA first….it’s the risk you take when transferring over! Feel foolish this was all self inflicted! Lol But hopefully non of these concerns playout and goes smoothly, fingers crossed.

Yes the next appointment will be your Claimant Commitment.
Don't be too surprised if they move it, they've rearranged mine twice already.

The person doing the ID appointment wouldn't really know about any other aspect of your claim, (they were just giving you the standard speech), the Work Coach should know better.

There is a quicker way to find out what their current thinking is.
Now your ID has been done you can ask for a UC Advance Payment, there's a button on the journal, and it will tell you what is the most you could get as an advance.
That maximum is what they have currently calculated your monthly payments will be, so that's one way of finding out.
They don't tell you how they have calculated that figure but it's fairly simple to work out.
I believe that you are over 25 so that should be Standard Allowance of £324.84 plus LCWRA of £346.63, and it should offer you a advance of up to £671.47.
(You'll probably want at least some of that to tide you over christmas, but it's your choice if you take one and how much you take).

In my case it offered me a figure that was Standard Allowance + my LCW + my Housing Element. (That was the first I knew that they had carried my LCW over correctly).

If you give it a figure that you want as an advance it then gives you a choice of how many months you want to pay it back over, and tells you how much each option would deduct from your UC for that number of months. (You can go back a page and change how much you want, either down or up to the maximim offered).

The notification on the journal about other benefits is just a standard letter sent out by the computer, everybody gets it.

If for some reason they don't carry your LCWRA over like they should, and/or ask for fit notes, then come back and I'll tell you what to put on your journal.

Hi Nukecad,

Thanks for the suggestion of checking the advance payment limit to see if they had updated my claim.

Unfortunately the maximum it says I can borrow is £324.84, like you say is only the standard rate, I take it from that they are still in the dark in regards to my ESA SG entitlement which is slightly worrying! But I have to talk to my work coach about this during my CC appointment.

I’m very fortunate to have a small sum of savings, enough to tide me over until my first payment so that’s fine.

I will let you know how I get on with the next appointment, thanks.

Hi Nukecad, I could really do with some help please!

I sent a message via my journal to what is says is my ‘case manager’ at my local Jobcentre. I asked why my LCWRA hadn’t been applied to my UC claim yet and I received this reply this afternoon!…

‘Unfortunately what is called "Transitional Protection" will only apply when the Severe Disability Premium was payable for ESA.
As you were in receipt of Enhanced Disability Premium this means you will need to be referred for a Work Capability Assessment for Universal Credit purposes. This is dealt with by my colleagues at ……..Jobcentre’!?

So they require me to go for another WCA before they can give me LCWRA?….omg what have I done! I should of left well alone and stayed on ESA! Damn! :(

Any idea what I should reply back with?

Ok so I read your migrating to UC thread Nukecad and I’ve replied back to them stating

‘With upmost respect I believe you are incorrect.

‘Transitional protection’ when applying for UC is only relevant to those receiving severe disability premium ESA to make sure they don’t lose money when transferring over to UC. Being on Severe disability premium or enhanced disability premium has no relevance or requirement into needing an additional Work capability assessment when moving over to UC.

The Universal Credit (Transitional Provisions) Regulations 2014" Regulation 19 clearly states that if you are migrating from ESA WRAG or ESA SG to Universal Credit then you should automatically be awarded the UC equivalent (UC-LCW or UC-LCWRA) with no need for a new assessment.

Transition from old style ESA
19.—(1) This regulation applies where–
(a) an award of universal credit is made to a claimant who was entitled to old
style ESA on the date on which the claim for universal credit was made or
treated as made (“the relevant date”); and
(b) on or before the relevant date it had been determined that the claimant had limited capability for work or limited capability for work-related activity (within the meaning of Part 1 of the 2007 Act).

(2) Where, on or before the relevant date, it had been determined that the claimant
had limited capability for work (within the meaning of Part 1 of the 2007 Act)–
(a) {removed}
(b) the claimant is to be treated as having limited capability for work for the
purposes of section 21(1)(a) of the Act.

(3){Removed}

(4) Where, on or before the relevant date, it had been determined that the claimant
had limited capability for work-related activity (within the meaning of Part 1 of the 2007 Act) or was treated as having limited capability for work-related activity–
(a) regulation 27(3) of the Universal Credit Regulations does not apply; and
(b) the claimant is to be treated as having limited capability for work and workrelated
activity for the purposes of regulation 27(1)(b) of those Regulations
and section 19(2)(a) of the Act.

Yes that looks like they haven't put the LCWRA on yet, but I think I can see why.

On your claim, when they asked about work, did you say that you were in ESA Support Group so wasn't expected to work?
Or did you just put down details of the new job?
If you didn't tell then you were Support Group then it may take longer for that information to get to them.

If you want to push about this now then you could put this on your journal, or remember it (write it down) for your CC interview and tell the Work Coach:

"I have noticed when looking into an Advance Payment that the amount I was offered was only the Standard Allowance of UC.
As I have Migrated to UC from ESA Suport Group then I believe the amount offered should have also included a LCWRA Element.

This is because Regulation 19 of the 'Universal Credit (Transitional Provisions) Regulations 2014' states that an existing Limited Capability Element is carried from ESA in a transition to UC, without any need of further assessment or waiting period.
For ESA Support Group transitioning to UC this regulation is reflected in the Advce For Decision Makers at ADM M6195 & M6196.

I ask that you correct this oversight."

That is what is needed if they try to make you send fit notes or a new assessment, or if the don't pay LCWRA from the start of your claim.
They haven't said any of that yet, so I've worded it politely, but it may be as well to get in in first.

This bit is for you not them, they can look it up themselves.

I wont' quote the legislation, if you want to read it then you can find it quoted here: https://youreable.livingmadeeasy.org...l=1#post133915
But the ADM is the DWPs own guidance manual and the 2 bits that I referred to say:

Quote:

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Claimant has LCWRA
M6195 Where

1. an award of UC is made to a claimant who was entitled to old style ESA on the relevant date (see M6191) and
2. before the relevant date, it had been determined that the claimant had, or was treated as having, LCWRA and
3. the assessment phase had ended

the claimant is treated as having LCWRA without the need for the WCA.

{Notes and references omited here}

M6196 Where M6195 applies, the LCWRA element is normally included in the amount of UC award to the claimant from the beginning of the first assessment period. The guidance about the relevant period before which the element is not included in the UC award in ADM Chapter F5 (LCWRA element) does not apply.

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