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Vick
13-03-16, 12:13
Hi all, currently on esa due to severe anxiety and depression, I'm on the work related group for this. Anyway I have found a part time (16 hours) minimum wage job that suits my needs, I am a singe mum of two also. What am I to expect when I change over? I know all housing benefit and council tax will stop immediately once I tell them this? I won't be issued any pay slip untill end of month so can't prove im on a low income to get working tax credit untill then, and to prove to the council im on a low wage, also could some one tell me how I go about telling the DWP about my new Job ive yet to start? I really really do NOT want to see my work advisor!!!! She makes my nerves bad and just looks upon me as I am nothing but something that's been dragged up in life, when infact all my family are very successful and also have been! Except me lol. I'm just feeling so nervous about this all and it's giving me anxiety on a whole new level, I know moving into work is he right approach for me even tho I won't be better off but it's a start to get back on travk and having to go to these dreaded work related interviews and I also have a medical coming up that I just can't even bear to deal with. Thankyou

nukecad
13-03-16, 14:38
If this is 16 hours per week @ minimum wage then it should (just) come under the permitted work rules.


Permitted work is work you can do and still keep your ESA.

You can work up to 16 hours per week and earn up to £107.5 after tax and NI (16x min wage).

If you go over 16 hours or £107.5 in any week then it will affect (disqualify) your ESA for that week.

Heres more info:

You can do some 'Permitted Work' whilst claiming ESA, which can include self employment.
(This is legally called 'Exempt Work', but for simplicity I'll keep using Permitted Work here).

You should inform the DWP if you intend to do, or have already done, any work whilst claiming ESA.
If this is paid work they will send you form PW1 that you fill in and return.
They will then confirm if the work is within the permitted limits.
If you have already done the work and it is not within the limits you may lose benefits.

You can find an example here: Example PW1 (http://www.pkc.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=23634&p=0)
You shouldn't print this off and use it, it is watermarked 'For Information' on each page. Get a form from the Jobcentre or DWP which will have their contact details, etc. filled in.

There are rules with permitted work of course and one of the important ones depends on whether you are in WRAG or Support Group.
(I will leave out 'supported permitted work' as this has special rules).

Firstly you can do Permitted Work at the Lower Limit - with this you can earn up to £20 a week for an unlimited period. Both WRAG and SG can do this.

Or you can do Permitted Work at the Higher Limit - with this you can earn up to £107.50 after tax and national insurance deductions and the work must be less than 16 hours a week.
(This is set to increase to £115.50 from April 2016)

If you are in WRAG you can only do this Permitted Work at the Higher Limit for 52 weeks then have to have a 52 week break.
(Even if you only do Permitted Work for one day that starts the 52 week period after which you can't do anymore for the next 52 weeks).
The Minister for Employment has recently indicated that this 52 week limit is to be removed in the near future.

If you are in Support Group this 52 week cycle does not apply, you can keep on doing Permitted Work as long as you like.

Money earned from Permitted Work does not affect your ESA payments.

Vick
13-03-16, 20:41
Hi there, thank you for your information you both have given me. Rasy im glad to hear you have achieved all what you've said you should be proud of your self. I'm hoping I can achieve the same, I'm feeling very nervous about making this move but know it's the right move. I no longer wish to be on ESA I just want to come away from the whole situation of it as I don't like how the system works and always on tender hooks waiting for the dreaded work related programes to come in the post not to mention the nerve wracking medicals every six months or so. fingers crossed this all works out for me. Thanks again to the both of you for taking time to reply to my post I need all the information I can get xx

disableddebbie
13-07-16, 14:49
I read somewhere that if you work 16 hours your money would be stopped. Is this true?

You have to work under 16 hours from what I read online

http://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/work-people-living-disability-or-health-conditions

nukecad
13-07-16, 15:24
The ESA legislation that governs this is, regulation 45 Exempt work (which the DWP wrongly call Permitted Work):

Paragraph (3), for Supported exempt work, says:

Work for which earnings in any
week do not exceed 16 x National Minimum Wage,...

Paragraph (4), for other exempt work, says:

Work which is done for less than 16 hours a week, for which earnings in any
week do not exceed 16 x National Minimum Wage,...

Although it does say 'less than' 16 hours in chapter (4), both chapters (3) & (4) says the earnings can be 16 times the minimum wage, which indicated that 16 hours exactly is OK and is what the Decision Makers use in practice.

Strictly to the legislation:
15 hours, 59 mins, 59.999 seconds is OK - but 16 hours, 0 mins, 0.000 seconds is not.
But that would be silly wouldn't it?

In practice:
Working periods usually come in 1/4 hour or 1/2 hour divisions.
So if you work 16 hours and get paid for 16 hours then that is fine, working, and getting paid for, 16-1/4 hours would not be.

deebee
13-07-16, 20:10
Vick,you are successful!
Look at you about to start work despite your problems
I hope it gives you a new found confidence and wish you all the best

disableddebbie
14-07-16, 00:57
The ESA legislation that governs this is, regulation 45 Exempt work (which the DWP wrongly call Permitted Work):

Paragraph (3), for Supported exempt work, says:


Paragraph (4), for other exempt work, says:


Although it does say 'less than' 16 hours in chapter (4), both chapters (3) & (4) says the earnings can be 16 times the minimum wage, which indicated that 16 hours exactly is OK and is what the Decision Makers use in practice.

Strictly to the legislation:
15 hours, 59 mins, 59.999 seconds is OK - but 16 hours, 0 mins, 0.000 seconds is not.
But that would be silly wouldn't it?

In practice:
Working periods usually come in 1/4 hour or 1/2 hour divisions.
So if you work 16 hours and get paid for 16 hours then that is fine, working, and getting paid for, 16-1/4 hours would not be.


Where is this stated please? I cannot find the above statements anywhere.

Thank you for your help

nukecad
14-07-16, 07:46
Where is this stated please? I cannot find the above statements anywhere.

Thank you for your help
You can find the legislation at:
Employment and Support Allowance Regulations 2008, as revised 29/02/2016, Regulation 45, Exempt Work.
(Reg. 45 starts on page 47 of this PDF).
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/794/pdfs/uksi_20080794_290216_en.pdf

Yes, it would have been better if the regulation said "16 hours or less", a lot of legislation from the last 10 years or so has been poorly written like this.

As said above 15 hours, 59 mins, and 59 seconds is 'less than 16 hours', the Decision Makers know what the regulation meant to say and are not going to argue for the extra second.

From you other thread I understand that your concern is that you are going to start work @ 16 hours per week.
You can ring them to confirm that what I am saying is correct and 16 hours will be OK as long as you don't exceed the earnings limit.
OR send them a completed PW1 form and get written confirmation before you start. (This may take a couple of weeks though).

disableddebbie
14-07-16, 11:26
You can find the legislation at:
Employment and Support Allowance Regulations 2008, as revised 29/02/2016, Regulation 45, Exempt Work.
(Reg. 45 starts on page 47 of this PDF).
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/794/pdfs/uksi_20080794_290216_en.pdf

Yes, it would have been better if the regulation said "16 hours or less", a lot of legislation from the last 10 years or so has been poorly written like this.

As said above 15 hours, 59 mins, and 59 seconds is 'less than 16 hours', the Decision Makers know what the regulation meant to say and are not going to argue for the extra second.

From you other thread I understand that your concern is that you are going to start work @ 16 hours per week.
You can ring them to confirm that what I am saying is correct and 16 hours will be OK as long as you don't exceed the earnings limit.
OR send them a completed PW1 form and get written confirmation before you start. (This may take a couple of weeks though).

thank you. Do I need to fill out a pw1 form before I start?

nukecad
14-07-16, 13:38
As long as the work is within the Exempt (Permitted) limits then you do not need 'permission' before starting.

I would let them know by phone before you start though, they will send you a PW1 to fill out and send off as soon as you can so they can check that the work is within the allowed limits.
It also means that if someone anonymously reports you as working and claiming benefits, they already have it record that you are doing allowed work and will not cal you in for a fraud investigation.

As I said in your other thread, if you don't do this then when they find out you have been working (and they will) they will stop your payments whilst they check that you have been within the allowed limits, which could take a number of weeks.
(And if this happens they are likely to tell your council your ESA has stopped and the council will stop any HB as well. That once happened to me, wrongly, and it took 2 months to sort out with the council).

disableddebbie
14-07-16, 17:21
As long as the work is within the Exempt (Permitted) limits then you do not need 'permission' before starting.

I would let them know by phone before you start though, they will send you a PW1 to fill out and send off as soon as you can so they can check that the work is within the allowed limits.
It also means that if someone anonymously reports you as working and claiming benefits, they already have it record that you are doing allowed work and will not cal you in for a fraud investigation.

As I said in your other thread, if you don't do this then when they find out you have been working (and they will) they will stop your payments whilst they check that you have been within the allowed limits, which could take a number of weeks.
(And if this happens they are likely to tell your council your ESA has stopped and the council will stop any HB as well. That once happened to me, wrongly, and it took 2 months to sort out with the council).

thank you so much for your help

garza71
28-11-16, 12:01
this is a really interesting and informative thread, I am on the support group and assumed you could not work at all, if I were to find some permitted work is there not a danger that the dwp could move me onto a work related group and argue that If I can work some time I could work full time?

nukecad
28-11-16, 14:55
this is a really interesting and informative thread, I am on the support group and assumed you could not work at all, if I were to find some permitted work is there not a danger that the dwp could move me onto a work related group and argue that If I can work some time I could work full time?As long as you are within the hours and earnings limit for exempt (permitted) work it is allowed.

The only problem may be if the work that you are doing conflicts with what your ESA has been awarded for.
(or in this particular question conflicts with the support group descriptor(s) for your award).
eg.
If you have said you can't walk any distance and then got a job delivering leaflets.
If you have said you can't communicate with others and then got a job in a call centre, as a receptionist, or behind a bar, etc.

As long as what you are doing does not contradict your award, and is within the hours and earnings limits, then you are OK to do it.

PS.
When you send the DWP a PW1 form they only check the hours/income are within the limits for exempt work. They would not check the type of work against your stated limitations at that stage.
It would be at your next assessment that any conflict between what work you are doing and what you claim to be able to do would be assessed.